1st Bn The Buffs (R.E.K.R)

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by Wolves Guy, Aug 4, 2008.

  1. Wolves Guy

    Wolves Guy Member

    Hi all,
    Can anyone help with information on the 1st Btn The Buffs ( Royal East Kent Reg) in WW2.
    I am trying to do a little research on 6288531 PTE Percy Thomas Woodward, who was killed in action on 19th January 1943. Percy is remembered on the Alamein Memorial.
    Any help on the location of the buffs movements between 1939 and 45 would be appriciated, or any other help you may be able to give.
    Dave
     
  2. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Wolves Guy -
    On first check - all I can find on 1st Buffs is that they were in 5th Inf.Bde of 4th Indian Div between Sept '41 and Dec '41 - this might have been after Beda Fomm when 4th Indian went on to Ethiopia - but I shall check further as obviously they were with 8th army still in January '43
    Cheers
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    The Buffs (The Royal East Kent Regiment)

    1st Battalion
    1939 Egypt
    1939.10 Middle East 6 Ind Div
    1941.06 Middle East Corps Troops, 22 Gds Bde
    1942.03 Middle East 8 Armd Bde
    1943.07 Middle East 18 Inf Bde
    1944.02 Italy
    1944.10 Italy
    1945.03 Italy 24 Gds Bde
    1945.05 Italy

    British Light Infantry Regiments & National Service


    18th Infantry Brigade (United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


    The Household Cavalry Regiment remained in Palestine and their place was taken by the 1st Buffs who had been in the Middle East for several years, being commanded by Lieutenant-Colonel Sewell Knocker.


    The 8th Armoured Brigade, Chapter I

    Time of his death 1st Buffs were with 8th Armd Bde.

    The History of the British 7th Armoured Division Organisation and Order of Battles
    <SUP>Temporarily replaced by 8th Armoured Brigade (as a XXX Corps unit) from November 1942 to 18th February 1943, while refitting. 8th Armoured Brigade. See below:

    8th Armoured Brigade
    3rd Royal Tank Regiment
    1st Bn The Buffs
    Nottinghamshire Yeomanry
    The Staffordshire Yeomanry
    146th Field Regiment RA
     
  4. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Owen -
    dead on with 1st Buffs - I hadn't thought of the Armoured Brigades which in the case of 8th armoured - usually independent !
     
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just found this a bit early for Wloves Guy's request but shows 1st Buffs in 29 Bde in 1939.
    North Africa - Sep 39

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR height=14><TD vAlign=top width=317>29 Infantry Brigade<!--mstheme--></TD><TD vAlign=top width=246><!--mstheme-->known as The Cairo Brigade. Under command 7 Infantry Division at Mersa Matruh<!--mstheme--></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!--mstheme--><!--mstheme--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR height=14><TD width=64><!--mstheme-->
    <!--mstheme-->



    </TD><TD width=533><!--mstheme-->1st Battalion, The Buffs (Royal East Kent Regiment)<!--mstheme--></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!--mstheme--><!--mstheme--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR height=14><TD width=64><!--mstheme-->
    <!--mstheme-->



    </TD><TD width=533><!--mstheme-->2nd Battalion, The Scots Guards





    Percy's number 6288531 fits well in the block for The Buffs,

    The Buffs (East Kent Regiment) 6278001 - 6334000

    so I take it he was a pre-war Regular?



    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  6. Wolves Guy

    Wolves Guy Member

    Hi Owen and Tom,
    Thank you both for the replies to my request on the 1st Buffs. I am at work at the moment so I will study all the information and links that you have both sent when I get home this evening.
    You are right, it does look like Percy was a a pre war regular.
    Thank you to both of you.
     
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    From Monty's Marauder's by Patrick Delaforce, page 124.

    Much of 19th January was spent in artillery duels...
    ....the following day the Staffs Yeomanry entered Tarhuna..the Arabs started looting...The Buffs restored order in the attractive little town of white houses set among trees and plantations.

    I know that is the day after Percy was killed but at least we can locate roughly were The Buffs were .
    Map here.
    Battles 1942

    On 15th January a rearguard of German tanks was engaged between the Geddahia - Bu Ngem track and the Wadi Zem-Zem. During a hard days fighting a number of German tanks and anti-tank guns were destroyed, with the loss of some British tanks too. The position could not easily be taken by frontal assault and an outflanking was not possible either. However, the Germans withdrew during the night, but by 19th January the 11th Hussars had caught up and were engaging the trailing units.
    Most of these positions were soon outflanked and on 23rd January 1943 the 8th Army entered Tripoli.
     
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just had a look on Geoff's Search Engine for Buffs casualties for that day, only two.

    Woodward on the Alamein Memorial

    And

    Ferris on the Medjez-el-Bab Memorial.

    Why aren't they on the same one?
    I dunno, it's one of those oddities that the CWGC throws up.

    I've searched for all 1st Bn Buffs casualties for January 1943.

    Geoff's Search Engine
    Search results for: + 01/01/1943 31/01/1943 + THE BUFFS (ROYAL EAST KENT REGIMENT). records found: 11
    Page 1 of 1
    001 BROWN, DM 6292020 04/01/1943
    002 CROUCH, DWG 6290443 18/01/1943
    003 FAGENCE, W 6285631 21/01/1943
    004 FERRIS, JT 6286864 19/01/1943
    005 HALES, PE 6291148 16/01/1943
    006 KENDRICK, HE 6294135 20/01/1943
    007 LYONS, PW 6149383 23/01/1943
    008 PEARCE, LA 6288489 25/01/1943
    009 SCHRINSKI, B 6299518 25/01/1943
    010 SNOXELL, JT 5954443 25/01/1943
    011 WOODWARD, PT 6288531 19/01/1943
     
  9. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Owen -
    As you say the oddity of one being commemorated at El Alamein and the other at Medjez el Bab cannot be explained in rational terms but probably it was a transport problem at that time as the distances - one to the other were prodigious - and Deleforce's comment " the Arabs were looting" - were they ever doing anything else ?
     
  10. Wolves Guy

    Wolves Guy Member

    Thanks guys, just spent an hour looking through your links. Very intresting stuff and I should get quite a lot out of it
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    1 Battalion The Buffs

    History and Commanders of 1 The Buffs [British Commonwealth]

    <TABLE class=DataGrid id=datSup style="BORDER-RIGHT: black 2px solid; BORDER-TOP: black 2px solid; BORDER-LEFT: black 2px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: black 2px solid; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 border=0><TBODY><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">03-Sep-1939</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">02-Oct-1939</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">29 Infantry Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #999966"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">03-Oct-1939</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">25-Nov-1939</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">22 Infantry Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">26-Nov-1939</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">27-Dec-1939</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">18 Infantry Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #999966"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">28-Dec-1939</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">15-Jan-1940</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">16 Infantry Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">16-Jan-1940</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">15-Jan-1941 ?</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">HQ British Troops Palestine and Transjordan</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #999966"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">15-Jan-1941</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">15-May-1941</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">HQ British Troops Egypt</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">16-May-1941</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">04-Jun-1941</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">23 Infantry Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #999966"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">07-Jun-1941</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">21-Sep-1941</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">22 Infantry Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">15-Oct-1941 ?</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">15-Dec-1941</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">5 Indian Infantry Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">Indian</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #999966"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">02-Jan-1942</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">20-Jan-1942</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">38 Indian Infantry Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">Indian</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">14-Mar-1942</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">17-Jun-1943</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">8 Armoured Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #999966"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">06-Jul-1943</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">20-Jul-1943</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">7 Motor Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">20-Jul-1943</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">04-Oct-1944</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">18 Infantry Brigade</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #999966"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">05-Oct-1944</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">16-Dec-1944</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">HQ Allied Armies in Italy</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridRow style="COLOR: darkred"><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">10-Mar-1945</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 13%">31-Aug-1945</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 39%">24 Infantry Brigade (Guards)</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 15%">British</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 20%"> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>






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  12. Wolves Guy

    Wolves Guy Member

    Thank you Owen, that is great information on the above history and commands for the 1st Buffs.
    Much appriciated
     
  13. GAZALA204

    GAZALA204 Junior Member

    Hi Dave

    My Grandfather 1st Buffs. He probably knew Percy depending which company he was in. I have been studying the 1st Bn for years and have just recently come across a wealth of information about them. My Grandfather was taken POW at Point 204 on 13th Dec 1941. There is not a great deal about 1st Buffs around, they were part of the 4th Indian Div but were moved around between 5th bde and 11th bde within the division. Later in march 1942 those that survived point 204 became 8th Lorried Bde part of the 10th Armoured Div

    Send Me a PM with your e-mail and i will send you what i have got withlinks etc.
     
  14. Wolves Guy

    Wolves Guy Member

    Thanks Gazala204,
    PM, on it's way
     
  15. Wolves Guy

    Wolves Guy Member

    Hi again Gazala204,
    Dont seem to be able to send you a PM, maybe as you have just subscribed to the forum it takes a few days before PMs can be sent. I will try again soon.
     
  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    5 posts & 3 days membership's required before access to the PM system's granted.
    I'll sort permissions out ;)

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  17. Wolves Guy

    Wolves Guy Member

    Thank you Adam, as long as you dont end up on a charge or loose any stripes I would be greatful
     
  18. Wolves Guy

    Wolves Guy Member

    ;);) cheers Adam
     
  19. GAZALA204

    GAZALA204 Junior Member

    Dear All

    After the fantastic trial at The war and peace show i have now started a living history and battle re-enactment group to portray the 1st Buffs during the desert campaign of ww2.

    it is very early days, but we now have the backing of the Buffs Association and are looking for support and new members, those who wish to be active members must have a connection to the regiment, I have a few contacts who are very good at finding out information as well as the info that i have, if anyone wishes to share any accurate info i would appreciate it. Tha main aim of our group is keeping alive the memory of this fantastic regiment

    I will try and awnser any e-mails asap

    HOME @ ww2forcesnetworkse.bravehost.com - A Bravenet.com Hosted Site
     
    Owen likes this.
  20. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Hi all,
    Can anyone help with information on the 1st Btn The Buffs ( Royal East Kent Reg) in WW2.
    I am trying to do a little research on 6288531 PTE Percy Thomas Woodward, who was killed in action on 19th January 1943. Percy is remembered on the Alamein Memorial.
    Any help on the location of the buffs movements between 1939 and 45 would be appriciated, or any other help you may be able to give.
    Dave

    Dave,
    the war diaries for the 1st are as follows --WO169/1708 Apr-Dec. 1941 WO169/4994 Jan - Dec.1942. WO169/10183 1943 Jan - Dec. This appears to be the period you are looking for.

    There is also a 1st Palestinian Company Buffs who's War Diaries WO169/1755 Feb - Dec. 1941. WO169/5085 Jan - Sept & Nov - Dec 1942
     

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