1st Special Service Brigade Operation Neptune

Discussion in 'Commandos & Royal Marines' started by Suzanne Vernon, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Private Charles Thomas Vernon (Known as Joe Vernon ) South Staffordshire Regiment 1st Special Service Brigade No 3 Commando Fell on Sword Beach. (Army No 6104834)

    We do not know what Troop he was in? How do we find this out?

    * We are trying to find out what Landing Craft he was on.
    * Was he on a Transport ship/Parent Ship that held the smaller LC and then lowered down into sea.
    * Was he on a Larger LC or Medium LC.

    We know the Force S break down of Vessels and order of Amphibious assault as attached. (Neptune Force S) We know he was attacking QUEEN RED.
    * We do not know what troop, what port they embarked from, whether he went across on Large LC, medium or across on Parent Transport LCI. Then lowered down with smaller crew.

    * we know that Flotilla records exist as part of Op Neptune that records Landing Craft numbers and crew names, BUT WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO GET HOLD OF THESE - Kew?

    * If any one knows of veterans or relatives loosely or closely connected to this information, or has any research that could help - Please get in touch.


    Attached Files:

  2. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    The majority of 3 Commando left from Warsash on Landing Craft Infantry(Small) of the 1st LCI(S) Squadron.

    The first two minutes of this video show Commandos loading at Warsash


  3. Danny just beat me to it!

    For D Day the main body of 3 Commando was split over five Landing Craft Infantry (Small) or LCI(S), with another 11 men with 10 Jeeps loaded on board two Landing Craft Tank Mark IV (LCT(4)) and two Landing Ships Tank Mark II (LST(2)). All these craft made the passage under their own power.

    From 3 Br Inf Div Gp Landing Table dated 19 Mar 44:

    To land H+105 on QUEEN RED Beach
    LCI(S) 512 LTIN 289 - 79 men incl 1 man from 10 (IA) Commando
    LCI(S) 509 LTIN 290 - 83 men incl 1 man from 10 (IA) Commando
    LCI(S) 535 LTIN 291 - 80 men incl 2 men from 10 (IA) Commando
    LCI(S) 538 LTIN 292 - 88 men incl 1 man from 10 (IA) Commando, 1 MC airborne
    LCI(S) 501 LTIN 293 - 89 men incl 2 men from 10 (IA) Commando, 1 MC airborne

    To land H+120 on QUEEN RED Beach
    LCT(4) ..... LTIN 305 - 2 men, 2 Jeeps
    LCT(4) ..... LTIN 306 - 1 man, 1 Jeep

    To land H+330 in QUEEN Sector
    LST(2) 361 LTIN 381 - 4 men, 3 Jeeps
    LST(2) ...... LTIN 384 - 4 men, 4 Jeeps

    Notes: LTIN stands for Landing Table Index Number, i.e. the serial number by which each load was identified. The LCI(S) hull numbers corresponding to each LTIN come from this post by Colin Henderson:

    It is therefore likely that your uncle was on board one of the LCI(S). These embarked at Warsash.

    Could you post any photo you have of your uncle, plus a scan of his Service Record if you have it?

    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  4. Danny thank you so much for your kind info!!! And Michael for suggesting i post this here and your info! What i am unsure about or confused about is the article or info I have doesnt outline Warsash as an area of embarkment? I'll try and attach it. It states Portsmouth Sputhsea and Newham?
    LCI SMALL, would they have travelled entire journey ? As I've read the smaller LCI's travelled on transport ships?

    Also do you know how we find out what troop no 3 commando would have been dispersed into?

    So I need clarity over the confusion on the LCI'S. AS WE are trying to find out what actually happened to the LC. We know that due to the far left of Queen Red the Melville battery was bombarding them from the left as they approached. Did he get from boat to land? Did the boat get no further as we know 1 OF LC had most fatalities due to the heavy shelling from Merville.

    But first we need to work out what type of LC he was on. ? ALL I keep reading is LCA. landing craft artillery? I yhoight LCI was a transport ships carrying the smaller LC' s!

    Also where did you get film Danny?
  5. Yes I will post a photo and service record! Also can you explain the abbreviations what is 10 (ia)??
  6. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    web38+(assault+1).jpg web39+(assault2).jpg web40++(assault+3).jpg

    I've posted this Sword Beach landing table before on WW2 Talk, but it might be of some help here. It was originally one long document which I copied a few years ago from the Operation Neptune assault plan, but I've had to split it into three for space reasons. It reads downwards from 1 to 19. The colour coding is mine.
  7. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    The LCI(S) that you mentioned was lost from gunfire was hit after the Commandos had landed and she was on the way back out to sea.

    The LCI(S) sailed from Warsash to Normandy. They were built for cross Channel operations. Attached is a photo of one.

    It was the Landing Craft Assault (LCA) that were carried across by Landing Ship Infantry (LSI).


    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  8. Suzanne,

    10 (IA) Commando stands for No.10 (Inter Allied) Commando, which was a Commando made up of men from various occupied European countries. There were French, Dutch, Belgian, Norwegian, Polish and Yugoslav troops, as well as a Miscellaneous Troop (No.3 Tp) , formerly known as X Troop (aka Jewish, British, or English Troop), made up mainly of German speakers, most of them of Jewish extraction and using British names. These were the ones attached to the other Commandos to act as translators.

    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  9. No.4CommandoBairn

    No.4CommandoBairn Well-Known Member

    Marvellous! Now I know the numbers of the LCA group that my dad was on.

    Thanks for starting the thread, Suzanne - and great info, folks ... thank you!
  10. Thank you Danny, Michael & Tmac for the continued support and interest - I am sorting a effectively scanned photographs and military history for you. Also I have a letter written by a Peter Young to my Grand father to try to explain what had happened, but it of course is vague but I will attach when I have it scanned.

    Also No.4CommandoBairn, I am determined to keep searching to determine Troop No and crew members of LCI.
    Hopefully it can help you.
    No.4CommandoBairn likes this.

  11. Thank you muchly, So to help me break this down - does this mean if No 3 commando were on LCI small - that they come under section 9 or 9 A?

    Then I need to look for records on the specific LCI numbers that are listed there?
    As a letter from the Commander Peter Young to my grand father told him that Joe was " there one minute then gone" but this doesn't mean any thing in the chaos of war. Also he told him that LSI 290 I think 292 were in "sinking condition" this ties up wiith what Danny or Michael has said that the NO 3 commando's LCI's were damaged sailing away from beaches landing.

    Thank you people so much :)
  12. No.4CommandoBairn

    No.4CommandoBairn Well-Known Member

    Hopefully Roy, a No.3 Commando veteran will be in Dieppe next week - if so, I'll ask him about Joe.
  13. Really? Can you pass my details onto him ? I'll message you my email? Wow!
    No.4CommandoBairn likes this.
  14. Is Roy connected to this site?
    This is very exciting as we have never been able to find any one connected to No 3.

    I have just been going through the letters from Joe to his parents etc and I have taken a quick foto of the address on top of letter... we can see it says Troop.... but we think it says C troop were the troops in Letters or numbers?

    We also think he was communications as he carried something that looked like a radio on his back WE THINK.

    Also I am off tomorrow to get the military record scanned as Michael said, also his photos. I might post a quick foto of him from my fone for now. and also the address at the top of his letter.

    Also I will try to find Owen!

    Suzanne :)
  15. No.4CommandoBairn

    No.4CommandoBairn Well-Known Member

    If you put Roy Cadman in Google, you'll see that he's quite the celebrity! I also met Scotty - Stan Scott - a couple of times (also No.3) but, unfortunately, he died ... my dad had told me about him when I was little - such an honour to meet and speak with them both.

    It's Drew you need. See message. ;)
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  16. On behalf of Suzanne I'm posting the photos she is referring to as follows:
    Joe's address at Holding Commando - Joe's handwriting.jpg

    Address of an officer who wrote to Joe's father after Joe's death:
    Lieut. BRIDGER's address.jpg

    Some partial shots of Joe's Service Records:
    Joe Vernon's Servce Record - 01.jpg

    Joe Vernon's Servce Record - 01 part.jpg
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
    No.4CommandoBairn likes this.
  17. No.4CommandoBairn

    No.4CommandoBairn Well-Known Member

    Yes, it says C Troop I see that 3 Commando had numbered Troops in the CVA Forum Gallery.
    Is the crossed-out bit referring to Achnacarry? CBTC - Commando Basic Training Centre.
  18. Second and last part of Suzanne's photos for today:

    Joe Vernon's Servce Record - 02.jpg

    Joe Vernon's Servce Record - 02 part.jpg

    No.4CommandoBairn likes this.
  19. thank you Michel.
    Does any one know at the part of the service record where it says posted to No 3 Commando on far left it reads a Roman numeral iii. What does this indicate?
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

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