201 Sqn Sunderland W4025 + Convoy WS21 Friendly fire

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by skyhawk, Apr 27, 2009.

  1. Peter201

    Peter201 New Member

    My father B E H Layne was attached to 201 Squadron and usually flew Sunderland W6005 in which he logged 606 hours. His best known flight was his attack on U-518 on 27 June 1943. Two days prior he had a fight with a Ju88 which I have never been able to identify. In all he engaged four U Boats. Who can I communicate with to try and find out more about my (now late) father's 201 days to help put a story together? I was drawn to this forum by finding reference to Traill's unfortunate shooting down in W4025. Dad was on his crew but fortunately stayed back at base to look after a Sunderland in danger of being blown ashore in foul weather.
     
  2. Peter201

    Peter201 New Member

    Just been having another look at this thread with Dad's (Brian Layne) logbook nearby. Seems surreal to see some of those names and aircraft featuring in both sources of information. He did his first A/S Escort in W4003 withF/Lt Spink and on 13 August 1942 he was 2nd pilot in W4000, flown by F/Lt (Sandy?) Powell when they attacked a U Boat, which I understand, from information supplied by Gudmunder Helgason, was U406.
     
  3. Digger Oz

    Digger Oz Member

    Ladies and Gentlemen,
    Thanks for allowing me to join.

    (
    IN RELATION TO AN ENQUIRY ON THIS THREAD EARLIER, HARRY SCRACE not SCARCE was a crew member - a very easy typo to make!.- in fact not scarce at all!
    )

    Anyway, I live in Waikerie in South Australia and assist our RSL to maintain the museum and ensure servicemen/women from our area are not forgotten (VIA the museum at the RSL and a facebook page:- "LEST WE FORGET - WAIKERIE AND DISTRICTS TRIBUTE TO THOSE WHO SERVED")

    I have written a brief history of all the 41 men lost from WAIKERIE in WW1 & WW2. One of these was a crew member of W4025, 21 year old - Vivian LEWIS.

    I have recently come across this site as I hadn't previously been aware of Vivian's plane serial number (His service record was recently uploaded to the National Archives as was the accident report for his aircraft W4025 now listed against Clifford FORTs name.)

    Using that info and the information gathered here I have updated Vivian's story. Before I upload it to the facebook site I would ask that it is OK for the information to be used (this is not used in any commercial way- purely as a tribute)

    I will try to attach the following:

    *-Vivian LEWIS' tribute (which will be later updated to LWF W&D site and to the RSL museum and Hall records)
    *- Vivian LEWIS' RAAF service record (pdf File)
    *- RAAF Accident report W4025 attached to Clifford FORT (pdf File) - (I suspect this is mainly an RAF report?)


    If I could have any feedback I would really appreciate it.
    Our town lost 30 men in WW2 and a considerable number were Airforce and it is important to me that I get it right, so that they are remembered correctly.
    Cheers.
    Digger Campbell.

    EDIT:-
    **SEEMS I CANNOT UPLOAD THOSE RECORD FILES DUE TO SIZE CONSTRAINTS (ALMOST 6MB & ALMOST 8.5MB)


    I WILL UPLOAD SOME COLOURISED PHOTOS OF VIVIAN WE'VE DONE AND THE TEXT I WAS WISHING YOU PEOPLE TO PERUSE WONT UPLOAD AS A WORD FILE SO I WILL ADD HERE! .
    ***THIS PERUSAL WOULD RELATE TO "EMMA' ESPECIALLY AS IT USES HER INFORMATION ABOUT HER GRANDFATHER TO "COMPLETE" THE STORY***

    I WILL FOLLOW UP LATER WITH LINKS TO VIVIANS RAAF RECORD & THE ACCIDENT REPORT FOR W4025.


    TRIBUTE TEXT AS FOLLOWS.


    Flight Sgt Vivian Roy LEWIS

    24-10-1920 – 31-7-1942



    Vivian Roy LEWIS was born in Waikerie on October 24, 1920 to John William and Jessie Lewis, of Waikerie. He was the only son but had two sisters, Irene and Fanny. He completed his schooling at The Kings College and became an electrical engineer and was working in Adelaide and regularly visiting Waikerie, where he loved driving his father’s hydroplane up and down the river. He also played tennis regularly for WAIKERIE and in the Easter tournament.

    On the 27th of May, 1940, Vivian completed his attestation in ADELAIDE and at almost 20 years of age joined the Royal Australian Air Force. Vivian was with his good mate, Clifford FORT and their allocated RAAF service numbers were only 3 apart.

    Vivian embarked on a troopship in February 1941 for service overseas, not surprisingly with him was Clifford FORT who had completed all the training with Vivian.

    Whilst enroute from Capetown to Freetown, their ship was torpedoed and sank so fast only four lifeboats with nearly 50 men aboard were got away. Two boats were so badly damaged that as they sank all men moved to the last two lifeboats.

    After 11 days on extremely meagre rations, one man died and others started to become delirious. Two days later, after 600 miles at sea, they sighted land but had to travel another 105 miles before they could land in British held territory to avoid being captured.


    Vivian and Clifford survived and the already good mates became inseparable. After a short period of hospitalisation they were sent on again “Fit for Active Service”.

    He saw active service with the multiple missions as an air gunner with the 201st RAF Squadron flying in ‘Short Sunderland II Flying Boats’ from Castle Archdale in Northern Ireland. For the next year he flew with his mate Clifford FORT in the same air crew.

    On the 31st day of July 1942, planes from the Squadron took off at 08:55 hrs from Castle Archdale. Vivian was in Sunderland Flying Boat bearing serial W4025.

    The crew of 12 that day were:
    Pilot Officer John ALLEN (109109) (RAFVR)
    Sergeant William BLUCK (568792) (RAF)
    Flight Sergeant James Andrew COLLINS (626612) (RAF)
    Sergeant Clifford Gurney FORT (407101) (Wireless Operator Air Gunner) (RAAF)
    Sergeant Vivian LEWIS (407104) (Wireless Operator Air Gunner) (RAAF)

    Sergeant John Robert GOODINGS (901208) (RAF)
    Sergeant Harry SCRACE (1245077) (RAF)
    Flight Sergeant Maurice John TOMLEY (924204) (RAFVR)
    Flight Lieutenant James Robert TRAILL (64942) (RAF)
    Flight Lt Walter Harry WAKEFIELD (43126) (RAF) (Pilot)
    Sergeant Peter S WHEATLEY (139066) (RAFVR)

    AND
    Sergeant Norman WILLIAMS (1294368) (RAFVR)

    (Of interest, another regular crew member, Brian LAYNE, was apparently on this crew but fortunately stayed back at base to look after a Sunderland in danger of being blown ashore in foul weather.)

    They were escorting shipping that had been joining Convoy WS21 a few days later. Reports later given from the convey which was travelling in fog and had low visibility at the time were added to the investigation conducted by the RAF and Admiralty (RN).

    They stated: -

    “Sunderland appeared without warning and was shot down by AA fire from HMS Hawkins in poor visibility while escorting convoy WS21 at 10:25 hrs.”

    Realising the error HMS Ledbury was immediately on the scene (position logged as 55.23N 014.13W) and rescued the only survivor, Sgt Wheatley.

    Peter WHEATLEY visited the RAF Memorial in Runnymede about 2010 to see his comrades names and remember them. This was believed to be the second plane crash he was involved in according to details he has given to family but no details are known of the first. After this crash, Sgt WHEATLEY understandably didn't fly again due to the psychological repercussions. After a 'recuperation' spell he was posted to Augustus as a Flight Controller.

    Peter Wheatley passed away on 17 July 2012, aged 89 years. His funeral was held on Tuesday 31st July 2012 - the 70th anniversary of the crash. The family paid tribute to him and his crew mates during the service.

    The bodies of Flight Sergeant Tomley, Flight Sergeant Collins and Sergeant Williams were recovered by a naval vessel and buried at sea. The remaining members could not be found and they were recorded as having lost their lives at sea.

    Vivian LEWIS and Clifford FORT are commemorated at the Runnymede War Memorial in Surry ENGLAND and on the Australian War Memorial on the Roll of Honour.

    Vivian is also commemorated with a tree and plaque here in the WAIKERIE War Memorial Gardens.

    LEST WE FORGET



    Hope this is OK,
    Thanks again,
    Digger
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Pedant alert, just a couple of typo's...
    They were escorting shipping that was assembling for Convoy WS21 a few days later. Reports later given from the convOy which was travelling in fog and had low visibility at the time were added to the investigation conducted by the RAF and Admiralty (RN).


    Runnymede War Memorial in SurrEy ENGLAND

    I'm sure someone brighter can answer this, but why would a Sunderland based on Lough Erne to minimise distance out into the Atlantic have travelled 200 miles or so EAST to the Gourock area? Surely land based craft could have protected shipping rather than a valuable long distance Uboat killer?

    I also can't trace a troopship being sunk in February or March 1941. With only 50 survivors it would seem to have lost a large number of souls in the sinking. Is the ship named in Australian records?

    Well done for this tribute- You've done Walkerie and the RSL proud.
     
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  5. Digger Oz

    Digger Oz Member

    KevinBattle,
    Thanks mate. I am not thinking you are pedantic at all, I've asked you mob to have a go so I know it'll be right when its posted. Really appreciate it.
    I find in re reading what I've typed I read it knowing what it is supposed to be and therefore end up missing bits.
    I apologise to Surrey, I didn't realise I had ripped you off a vowel for so long.... But hey, Surrey you looked good slimmer!?

    As for the vessels name, all we have is what I've found on FORTs record, a very brief entry of no real assistance that I can see.
    Attached is a newspaper article referring to the incident.

    Cheers again..
    Digger
     

    Attached Files:

  6. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Well, the only ship that might fit is the SS Memnon
    U.106 sank British steamer MEMNON (7506grt) at 20-41N, 21-00W.
    Five crew were lost on the steamer. One gunner and three passengers were taken prisoner. Twenty crew were detained but were subsequently released.
    Survivors either landed in French West Africa and were interned by Vichy French authorities or were rescued by Gneisenau ( Kriegsmarine)

    which I would have expected to be mentioned. It doesn't quite warrant the description of troopship to me :)
    Rather than include an unsubstantiated incident which might detract from the true nature of these brave lads, either omit until verified or hope one of our naval experts hove into view.
    Meantime... surry with the fringe on top - Google Search :)
     
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  7. Digger Oz

    Digger Oz Member


    Mate,

    Did you read the attached newspaper article? It fits perfectly with the scenario you've given for the ship. It lists 2 boats, one continued to Dakar and one was landed and those on board captured.

    I would suggest that the very definite nature of the article naming LEWIS gives me enough reason to think that it's q genuine incident and I would be happy to keep this included as part of his story.

    This is also supported by his mate Clifford Forts record indicating the incident. (Fort is not referred to in the article as it is an article for the newspaper that covers the Riverland area in South Australia and Fort was not from the area.)

    I will however try a search using Memnon later (I am currently at work!)

    Hopefully that's enough, if not how would I verify

    Thanks again!
     
  8. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Digger Oz. Keep it, as it is verified by the newspaper report.
    I agree the Memnon fits the described story.

    Huh! Rub it in that you're at work :)

    I work on a "Trust but verify" basis so i do look for corroboration however in this instance no one but me is going to be picky.
    I just like to tie up loose ends.
    The SS Dagomar is a much better fit, but that was 1942, so unless the reporter was a time traveller, it can't be that :)
    Thanks for taking the time to respond, and my apologies for nit picking.
     
  9. Digger Oz

    Digger Oz Member

    Mate, I'd love to not be at work .. don't ask!!

    I am not calling you picky I asked for it to be reviewed and I'm grateful! I was concerned that I had no idea how I would verify it any other way. These are so people see these fallen as just that, people , not just a name on the wall. Thanks again.
     
  10. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    With you there, chum.
    Often that's all they are now, just Names on a wall or grave stone, with most having no idea of the lives they led or how they ended up.
    Just try to put some flesh on the bones for family etc as in my signature footer.
    Good luck with all your research :)

    Off topic question: Why did the Rev Arnold Woolford have a vertical striped guernsey in 1913?

    CWGC has 23 (5 of which are WW1) as opposed to your 37, but welcome to review in case there's one missed... :poppy:
     

    Attached Files:

    Digger Oz likes this.
  11. Digger Oz

    Digger Oz Member

    He was wearing an older Guernsey,!! Now WAIKERIE footy club wear jail bar Guernsey in black and white. our memorial covers surrounding areas, main ones RAMCO. Sunlands, holder, taylorville etc
     
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  12. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Just to confirm that MEMNON is the correct ship and both Vivien and Fort were aboard the lifeboats.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  13. Digger Oz

    Digger Oz Member

    Hugh,
    You legend! Thanks mate

    Digger
     
  14. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    If it's a small consolation, some other RAAF types did in the U-106
    U-106 tried to join E-boats (German surface torpedo boats), but was spotted by a Sunderland flying boat of 228 Squadron flown by Flying Officer Reader Hanbury. Although the anti-aircraft guns on U-106 fended off the British flying boat that sighted it, U-106 was hit by a Sunderland from No. 461 Squadron RAAF flown by Flight Lieutenant A. F. Clarke.
    According to the Allied crews and photographs taken of the attack, the U-Boat partially exploded before sinking vertically. 22 of U-106's 48-man crew were killed. 26 survived the attack and were later picked up by German E-boats.
     
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  15. Digger Oz

    Digger Oz Member

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  16. Digger Oz

    Digger Oz Member

    This is one of the two photos I've found of the sinking of the U106.

    (colourised by me so anything incorrect please advise!)
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Digger Oz

    Digger Oz Member

    Just realised I hadn't added the links to Clifford FORTs "accident record" for W4025
    (Sorry)

    ("record search on the National archives of Australia (NAA) site are free and open. In the next two years they are hoping to release most of the WW2 service records (some are held from release) -
    The Record Search feature covers Army for Boer, WW1, WW2, etc, - It covers Navy and Airforce records. POW records, RAAF Accident reports (Aircraft) are mostly uploaded.
    Of interest is RED CROSS records for WW1, courts martial, army invention directorate, etc etc etc also listed and searchable here free! - (this is because of an agreement with the Australian War Memorial
    that the records should be accessible to those who follow. The NAA page also covers photos and numerous other databases!

    example is: Vivian LEWIS' record

    View digital copy

    Clifford FORTs record
    View digital copy


    FORTs accident record (which covers the incident of his and crew mates death) is at:-
    https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ListingReports/ItemsListing.aspx

    Heading is:-
    "FORT Clifford Gurney - (Sergeant); Service Number - 407101; File type - Casualty - Repatriation; Aircraft - Sunderland Mk III W 4025; Place - North Atlantic Ocean; Date - 31 July 1942
    Just click on the pile of papers icon on right hand corner of the entry - this will open the file for viewing and once open there is an option to save (download) as PDF.

    Hope this is of help to anyone making enquiries on Aussie stuff.
    (and may help people enquiring about other Pommy, Canadian etc etc crew on same aircraft..)

    Cheers
    Digger
     

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