I am trying to find the location of the death of two Royal Artillery soldiers who are commemorated on the Rangoon Memorial as they have no known grave. They are L/Sgt Raymond Smith 1373802 and WH Shuck 11403384. They both were killed on 14 April 1944. The CWGC has no unit, apart from Royal Artillery and nor do the Casualty Lists where they appear together with 'HAA' being the only clue. Smith's RA casualty Card has no unit but Shuck's has '206 HAA' on it. However I cannot find a RA unit in India and Burma that could be '206 HAA' . I have googled it, tried Farndale's book and looked in The National Archives catalogue for a War Diary. The only one I can find is a 206 Battery HAA in 1940-1. Any suggestions on how to progress this?
Two possibilities come to mind regarding 206th HAA and both mean an error in transcription at some point. There was a 206th Light AA Battery under 69th Light AA Regiment, RA serving in Assam under 3rd Indian AA Brigade on the date in question. The other possibility. There was a 296th HAA Battery under 66th Heavy AA Regiment located in the Ledo area on that date. This is only one digit of 206th. Both are long shots but may fit the bill.
Hi Skoyen, As you suspect, the 206th H.A.A. Battery, R.A. did not serve in India or Burma. These men appear not to have R.A. tracer cards, none that I can find. In the case of the 206th Battery man, the reference to the battery might be the result of it being the first operational unit he was posted to after training. This appears to sometimes stick with the man even after he has later been posted to other units. I've completed a first line of enquiry which was to examine the war diaries of all Royal Artillery H.A.A. regiments in India, Burma or Ceylon for April 1944. No casualties were recorded by any R.A. H.A.A. regiment for 15th April 1944. This might, I stress might, rule out these two men serving with Royal Artillery H.A.A. regiments on that date. Amongst other possible lines of enquiry, there is the option to look through the war diaries of R.A. L.A.A. regiments, in case these men had been posted within the A.A. Branch to the light units. A more unlikely scenario is that the men were serving with Indian H.A.A. Regiments. This is possible in the case of the L/Sgt as NCO's served with Indian A.A. regiments along with officers, but Gunners did not, unless he was an acting NCO and this was not recorded. I'll look through the data I have for the above tomorrow and get back to you on the above. There is then the possibility that the men had been transferred to another branch of the R.A. or another arm of service and/or unit. That's a big list to trawl through. Not much help, sorry. Rothy
I agree with Dryan67, and a few more units thet “may” be possibilities??? As they were all in Burma AND if a number was “transposed” incorrectly
Raymond Smith 1473802 has an attestation record on FindMyPast but there are repeated errors being returned on that site tonight so I can't view the record. I'll try again in the morning.
Smith's correct number was indeed 1473802. Both Smith and Shuck were KIA in Burma on 15/04/44. Although identified only as HAA it is possible that they were members of 206 LAA Bty. That battery, of 69 LAA Regiment, was not entirely in Assam at the time since four troops of the regiment had been lent to Wingate's escapade for the defence of their garrisons. The date is right and that might account for how they were killed in action in Burma, rather than in India as originally recorded.
I have asked Chindit expert, http://ww2talk.com/index.php?members/bamboo43.11591/, to take a look at this thread based on the suggestion by JITTER PARTY.
The war diary of the 69th L.A.A. Regiment, R.A. is not of much help - no casualties are identified for the period of interest. Regarding the detachment formed for service with the Chindits, here is a summary of what the war diary says: At the end of January 1944, the Regiment received instructions to prepare 24 guns and around 300 officers and men, organised in four troops, to be sent to Silchar for special anti-aircraft duties. Four independent troops, identified as ‘W’, ‘X’, ‘Y’ and ‘Z’ Troops, were organised, using guns taken from those deployed at Digboi, Sockerating (near Dum Duma (Doom Dooma)), Dinjan and Tinsukia. Upon arrival at Silchar, the independent troops were to report to the Headquarters, Special Force. The last party organised for this duty left the Regiment on 10th February. It seems that at least several of the guns were flown in to defend the airstrips being used by the Chindits as part of the Second Wingate Expedition. No further mention is made of this detachment after February 1944. In the meantime, additional reinforcements arrived to join the Regiment at Tinsukia. The men and guns not taken for this duty continued to be deployed for action at Digboi, Sockerating (206th Battery), Dinjan (267th Battery) and Tinsukia. On 16th April, the Regiment came under the command of the 3rd Indian A.A. Brigade, which had arrived in Assam to relieve the 9th A.A. Brigade. An additional 40 reinforcements joined the Regiment from 32 Reinforcement Camp on 22nd April 1944. The locations served by the Regiment remained unchanged through the months that followed. Rothy
Firstly, thank you for your pm dryan67. Secondly, I am anything but an expert on the Chindits, with my leaning being almost wholly based on the first expedition. I saw this thread yesterday before I went to work and did a quick look through my files to see if I could at least locate Shuck as the more unusual name, but to no avail. I did look through the 77 Brigade HQ diary for 1944 which as some of you may know, is a weighty document of sitreps to and fro, sometimes on a minute by minute basis. In the small hours of the 15th April 0040hrs to be precise, is the following entry: From White City to Broadway: Cas: last 24 hours. 4 BORS killed and 1 seriously wounded. 16 BRs wounded. 25 pounder received direct hit and written off. Calvert with striking force laying up in the Ledan Chaung for SD tonight. It goes on, but with no further information about who the wounded and killed men were unfortunately. Neither Shuck nor Smith are mentioned in the casualty rolls. Then at 1120 hrs. There is the line from Rear Base 3rd Indian Division; Can replace 25 pounder when required. State cas of Gun Crew. That is what I have! Not sure it is conclusive evidence towards identifying the above mentioned men and their fate. I've attached enlarged screenshots of the two entries. The resolution of the originals is poor, but if anyone wants the full images then let me know.
I finally got to view the attestation record for Raymond Smith. Sadly, it doesn't include any information other than his Service No. and date of death, recorded as 14th April 1944. Rothy
Hi all Many thanks for your efforts on this one.....and apologies for lack of a response - Christmas things and travel intervened to keep me away from my laptop!! It is part of my project to name as many as I can of the 'odds and sods' who made up the defence of Kohima - see elsewhere on Burma and India Forum. In a number of other cases I have managed to find something that suggests that the individual was at Kohima; in others I have found that they were involved in one of the other locations where there was fighting at the same time. Just occasionally I cannot place a casualty. It is good to know that I hadn't missed the mysterious '206 HAA'. I can look through the CWGC database and the Casualty Lists to see if there are casualties that match the four mentioned in the 77 Brigade War Diary.
There are four possibles in the CWGC database (highlighted in rust colour). I have attached the list for RA on 14 April 1944 (plus the days either side as these are not very accurate especially for the Chindits and Kohima), cut down to exclude others from Italy etc. Included are some I can demonstrate were part of the Kohima Garrison. Cook was with 4 LAA Regt, RIA and buried in Madras. Downie was initially buried in Akyab so likely to have been an Arakan casualty. Dougherty and Mendus were initially buried at Sahmaw so are likely to have been Chindits.
Some notes and thoughts - possibly a distraction from the main thrust of the enquiry..... Cook being with the 4th L.A.A. Regiment, I.A. (the Indian Artillery did not become 'Royal' until after the war) and buried in Madras is interesting. The 4th LAA went to the 1st Indian A.A. Brigade in the Calcutta area in April 1943. It appears to have remained there until it moved to Assam and under the 14th (W.A.) A.A. Brigade in October 1944. The war diary for 1944 is only partial and does not begin until October 1944 when the Regiment began this move. I have three Indian L.A.A. regiments in the Arakan in April 1944: 3rd; 6th (Punjab) and 8th (Sikh). None mention any casualties for April 1944. The war diary of the 3rd does not contain the usual officer listings. That of the 6th is for December 1944 only. The 8th diary is more complete but no mention of losses nor is Downie listed. As per my first post above, there is nothing in the diaries of the Indian HAA regiments to help.
Ward and Hampson appear in the roll of honour for 51st Field Regiment RA and so were Chindits fighting as infantry in columns 51 & 69 (16th Brigade Fergusson). Hampson is mentioned as accidentally killed in the 51 FR war diary (see attachment). I was hoping to find something for Mendus, being an officer, but so far nothing. Unlike other attached personnel, Signals, RE, RAMC etc. Royal Artillery personnel rarely feature in war diaries and the like in regards to Chindit 2.
RE: Arthur Mendus. Here is an image of his grave at Taukkyan and a photograph of the man from the Dynevor School Roll of honour. His entry in the school ROH stated that he was a Chindit: WW2 Roll of Honour
Arthur Mendus confirmed as dead in sitrep from White City within the 77 HQ war diary on the 19th April 1944:
Can I attempt to clarify a few things? Some of the confusion here is due to the inaccurate nature of CWGC records, as is often the case. The unit designation ’51 Bty 69 Regt’, and the variations thereof, used by CWGC, are complete nonsense. As Bamboo43 states, this actually refers to the composite Chindit RA battalion created from the amalgamation of 51 Fd Regt and 69 LAA-ATK Regt. Every member of this battalion has been incorrectly recorded by CWGC; it is not really their fault for this is what the War Office told them. They are also recorded incorrectly in the WO 417 casualty lists. This is further complicated by the common, and additional, error of referring to ’51 Bty 69 LAA Regt’. 69 LAA Regt was not the unit in question here, it was actually 69 LAA-ATK Regt, as noted above, that was combined with 51 Fd Regt. 69 LAA-ATK Regt had been converted, by exchange of batteries, from 69 ATK Regt, not 69 LAA Regt. Further confusion then arises from the assignment of four troops from the actual 69 LAA Regt to Wingate’s force, as noted above. Smith and Shuck were both originally listed as ‘Missing Believed Killed’ in India 14/04/44. This was subsequently amended to ‘Killed in Action’ Burma 15/04/44, but the CWGC seems only to have amended Shuck’s record for some reason. I believe that the change from India to Burma is significant too, if their regiment had been divided by the attachment of four troops to the Chindits. This supports the supposition that they were members of 69 LAA Regt and Chindits, I think. Cook was not a ‘BDR RIA’ for three reasons. It was, as noted above, still the Indian Artillery at that stage. There was no rank of Bombardier in the Indian Artillery; they had Naiks. He was from Kilburn, which is not in India; he was a member of the RA attached to the IA. CWGC often has problems with this concept. Dougher and Mendus were definitely Chindits. Dougher was also a member of 69 LAA Regt and Mendus was an officer of 160 Fd Regt, which supplied the 25 pounders for the Chindit garrisons. Downie was an officer of 33 Ind Mtn Bty and was indeed KIA in Arakan. Jinks died as the result of an accident.
An updated version of the spreadsheet. It looks like we can place all of them with the exception of Smith and Shuck!!! Interesting to see that Jinks was killed in an aircrash.
Thanks Jitter Party for straightening us out on the 51/69 and 69 saga. It is no wonder that the CWGC have got it wrong to be honest! On the comment about Cook really being in the RA attd to the IA that is down to me I fear!. Everyone on the spreadsheet I downloaded is RA as the search terms were 'Regiment = Royal Artillery' and 'Date of Death = 13 to 15 April 1944'. Hence when I was working on it I removed a couple of superfluous columns including Regiment because they were only RA!!!! The IA comments you will see are in the Column 'Secondary Regiment'. That said the use of 'Royal Indian Artillery' instead of 'Indian Artillery' is down to the CWGC. On Smith and Shuck: I wonder if there is anything in the 69 LAA Regt War Diary which suggests the addition of HAA gunners as reinforcements?
