21st century Dambusters (for all discussion on the remake)

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by von Poop, Jul 16, 2006.

  1. Alan Allport

    Alan Allport Senior Member

    I wonder what Guy Gibson would think if he knew that, more than half a century after his death, he would be almost as famous for the unfortunate name he gave to his dog as for anything else he ever accomplished?

    Impossible to know, of course, given how tragically short his life was cut.

    But he seems to have been a pretty down-to-earth sort of chap, and I can't help but wonder if he wouldn't have been mildly embarrassed about the way it's become a pointless distraction from far more important things.

    The only practical results of keeping the dog's name the same in the remake would have been that (a) the resulting brouhaha would have completely overshadowed everything else about the film, or (b) the film would never have been made in the first place. And that, to me anyway, would have been a shame.

    The world has moved on since 1943, and for that matter 1955. There are far more outrageous manglings of history than this one to get worked up about. There are, for that matter, far more upsetting things going on in the world than a mere film. I have a limited stock of outrage. I try to save it up for really important things. This isn't one of them.

    Best, Alan
     
  2. At Home Dad (Returning)

    At Home Dad (Returning) Well-Known Member

    cant the dog be called the more modern Nigga
    rather than the old colonial version ending in 'er'?

    That's the more hip, cool, less offensive version
    apparently, to judge by the amount of times you
    hear it used in that noise erroneously called music...
     
  3. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    I don't think that the name Gibson gave his dog has become over important to what 617 achieved that night. Nowadays it's more about if the Squadron paid too high a price.
    The word is offensive no matter the rights and wrongs, this is a far different world as Alan has said.
     
  4. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    It makes me think of an Austrian SF Officer who was called Karl F*cker - post war he had a coach tour company and it always raised eyebrows when his coaches visited UK, so I suppose William the Conqueror can no longer be called William the B*stard - strange that the N word is used by people of colour among themselves. . . . .
     
  5. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Why can't they just leave any reference to the dog out of the script, as by changing it's name, it only serves to draw more attention to the subject matter and all the comments that come with it.
     
  6. Bradlad

    Bradlad Senior Member

    I think the major point is being missed by some really, it is historical FACT that the dog was called Nigger, with a capital N, Believe me when I say I believe the word to be offensive, I detest racism and the type of people associated with it however the fact is the dog was called that, I personally was involved with keeping the dog's grave where it is when the redevelopment of Scampton was first muted, PC bureaucrats wanted it removed..
    Too much history is being diluted and adjusted to suit modern ideals, fact is fact and is indisputable, and the sooner that is realised by the likes of Hollywood and the PC brigade the better...
     
  7. Alan Allport

    Alan Allport Senior Member

    It is historical FACT that the dog was called Nigger, with a capital N.

    It is indeed. However, not all facts are created equal. Some matter a great deal. Some can be set aside with little cost.

    The original Dambusters film was not always straightforward when it came to fact. For instance, it rather smoothed over the controversy about the raid within Bomber Command itself; the film presented Harris as an enthusiastic proponent of the attack, whereas IIRC he was not at all happy about it (at least initially), regarding it as a 'panacea' solution that distracted his aircrews from their proper business of area city bombing.

    The 1955 film also glossed over the effects of the raid, presenting it as a marvelous success. Yet Barnes-Wallis is heard predicting in early scenes that destroying the dams will bring the German economy to its knees within a few months, a prophecy that of course proves wildly overoptimistic. No attention is drawn to this inconsistency. (Did BW really make such bold predictions? I don't know. Does anyone?)

    Now, these are genuinely interesting problems of fact; I'm very curious to know how the remake will deal with them, if at all.

    The dog? Not so much.

    Best, Alan
     
  8. Bradlad

    Bradlad Senior Member

    I agree Alan, however the discussion isn't about the original movie or ( in theory ) any movie, it is the fact that political correctness is trying to change history.

    Fine, leave the dog out of the movie and find an alternative way of broadcasting that the dams were breached, both are possible without altering historical fact and staying with the story, it is the fact that the Americans are AGAIN altering history to suit themselves, and before our American members scream racism, I am actually pro-US however in certain circumstances I feel the US movie industry is way out of order.

    I sort of agree with an earlier post about having more important things to get upset about, however this issue should not be such, it could have been avoided completely without the need to re-write history, and that is my bone of contention.
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Merged this thread with one from 2006 & all the other various similar threads about it.

    As been said alot in these posts , if the dog was called Nigger the fuss over it would overshadow the film itself.

    Try this then, it's historical fact that Servicemen say 'Cunt' alot but you never hear that in films do you?
     
  10. Bradlad

    Bradlad Senior Member

    Try this then, it's historical fact that Servicemen say 'Cunt' alot but you never hear that in films do you?

    Exactly, it isn't " tactfully " changed to ' punt ' is it? it is just omitted.

    I would have no issue with the dog being removed or mentioned in passing, it is the fact that historical fact is being changed that is grating.

    U571 anyone?
     
  11. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    It might be American money making the film but Jackson and the script writer, Fry, are not.
    No film based on history is ever made without some changes.
    I live not too far from Scampton and the feat that 617 managed to complete that night in 43 was nothing short of fantastic. True heroes to me.
    Nigger's name was always going to be changed in this day and age, PC or not. If they changed aircrew names then that's something to get upset about.
    I'm surprised that some people are so incandescent with rage over what is a small change.
    What do you want? The film not to be made?
     
  12. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I have no doubt that Mr Fry will have his way as it is his money no doubt - plus in order to keep the myths of American Superiority he will have a noted non British "Star" in the leading role and others of the same ilk appearing throughout the film as that will satisfy their langauge demands - can't have too many or even one Cheryl Cole's mumbling through her script

    Cheers
     
  13. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

  14. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    What do you want? The film not to be made?

    Yes I would like that very much. Peter Jackson is a great film maker but just how could he make something better without imitating the original? How would you improve on or ignore the following scenes?:

    The atmosphere in the Operations room every time the phone rings?

    The way the aircrew all quietly clip on the masks as the call 'Enemy coast ahead' is made showing their utter professionalism?

    "It's gone!"

    The empty breakfast table, the ticking clock in the empty room, the close up of Dinghy Young's oar on the wall? The aircrew just flopping down on the beds without any sense of triumphalism? All done in total silence with no background score to ruin it.

    I don't think you could. It's true that imitation can be the greatest form of flattery (George Lucas with the Death Star attack scene in Star Wars) but just what would be the point?

    Jonathan

    P.S Its my favourite ever film, can you tell? :D
     
  15. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    Yes I would like that very much. Peter Jackson is a great film maker but just how could he make something better without imitating the original? How would you improve on or ignore the following scenes?:

    The atmosphere in the Operations room every time the phone rings?

    The way the aircrew all quietly clip on the masks as the call 'Enemy coast ahead' is made showing their utter professionalism?

    "It's gone!"

    The empty breakfast table, the ticking clock in the empty room, the close up of Dinghy Young's oar on the wall? The aircrew just flopping down on the beds without any sense of triumphalism? All done in total silence with no background score to ruin it.

    I don't think you could. It's true that imitation can be the greatest form of flattery (George Lucas with the Death Star attack scene in Star Wars) but just what would be the point?

    Jonathan

    P.S Its my favourite ever film, can you tell? :D

    They remake films all the time. I love the Battle of Britain and I would love them to remake it - that would be fantastic - different I bet but bloody good all the same.
    The story is already there, a chance for a new generation to learn about the bravery and the sacrifice of 617. Another chance for youngsters to remember those that gave all they had to give.
    I sometimes think people just miss the point.:mellow:
     
  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    What about any Lanc restoration, as has been rumoured now and then?
    Anybody heard anything?

    Fine looking replica, 2009:
    Takeoff looms for Dambusters | Stuff.co.nz

    As for critiques of a non-released/completed film that none of us have seen... How about a watching brief until we actually have ;).
    I have a strong suspicion this will not be another U571 incident.

    Septics playing British blokes, or vice versa?
    Not necessarily a bad thing, or even presented in the manner we might expect.
    Main character in the series 'Sons of Anarchy' is a Britischer actor playing a Yank called Jax; I never guessed until I looked on the Internerd. Damned fine job.
     
  17. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

  18. Bradlad

    Bradlad Senior Member

    Main character in the series 'Sons of Anarchy' is a Britischer actor playing a Yank called Jax; I never guessed until I looked on the Internerd. Damned fine job.

    Agreed, and then you have Damien Lewis playing Dick Winters in Band Of Brothers, it is far from uncommon for one nationality to play another, the current notable mention is Hugh Laurie playing Dr House..

    There will never be a consensus on the issue of the dogs name, to many it is a non-issue to others it is a historical point and I now agree, getting wound up about it is nonsensical however the point is still valid that it would have made more sense to just not name the dog in the remake rather than bastardise the original and proper historical name.

    It is far more important that the modern generation get to see the heroics of the age, my kids wouldn't sit and watch my DVD of The Dambusters if I paid them vast amounts of money and excused them the washing up, however they religiously go to the cinema to see ALL new releases and will go see the remake... and to me THAT is what is important here.
     
  19. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    It's not all bad: Aussies are clearly still fair game :D

    Heaven forbid if we couldn't call you the Poms!

    I was incensed initially about the changing of the dogs name however if that is the only price to be paid for a whole generation to know and remember the feats and bravery of these crews and in particular the overall sacrifice of Bomber Command, I will be overjoyed.

    We should look at the big picture and the opening of the movie,

    "This is a true story ...................................!!!!!!!

    The forthcoming Bomber Command memorial will become a beacon and "must see" for millions of visitors to London every year.
     
  20. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    The Dam Busters' dog will be renamed for a new version of the classic war movie, it has emerged.
    Stephen Fry, who is writing the film's screenplay, said there was "no question in America that you could ever have a dog called the N-word".
    In the remake, the dog will be called "Digger" instead of "Nigger".

    Read more.....

    BBC News - Dam Busters dog renamed for movie remake
     

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