228040 John Holland SAUNDERS, 1 Troop, 80 Assault Squadron, Royal Engineers

Thanks Michel. Not sure whether or not this was a rubbing strake but in your pic I also seem to notice a raised edge near the bottom of the hull sides. This is the Heller model, I marked the deliberately raised edge with a black marker :




Regards,

Arjan

 

Now I see what you mean. What look likes a raised edge on LCT 524 is an optical illusion caused either by different shades in the below-waterline colour or by the vertical plates caving in above the lower angle. This angle is normally 90 degrees, as seen on plans and on new craft. See for example:
IWM (A 22739)

There is no raised edge at the bottom, and the protrusion on the Heller model should be cut out.

Michel

 

Thanks Michel ! Henk pointed out to me that the door leading from the hold to the deck house was a sliding door rather than an ordinary door. I wonder if there are other inaccuracies in the 1/35 Nexus plan.



Regards,

Arjan

 

Arjan,

The Nexus plan (my version is 1/48 rather than 1/35) is a simplified drawing aimed at RC modeller, rather than a perfectly accurate scale drawing. It does state that it is valid for LCT with hull numbers between 1050 and 1200. In spite of that, as you noticed, the hinged door is incorrect. As far as I know this door was always a sliding door.

I haven't reviewed the plan in detail, but the best way to avoid errors in to use lots of photos as reference. Unfortunately the craft you have picked (611 & 1068) do not appear in many photos or films, but they must incorporate the distinctive features of the production lot to which they respectively belong.

As for the Accurate Armour model, you can totally trust it, because the master was built by Dan Taylor according to shipyard drawings. I'm not sure to which hull number(s) these drawings apply though. Is this mentioned in the assembly instructions?

Michel

 

Thanks Michel, I no longer have the 1/35 AA kit and I don't remember what was mentioned in the instructions. One of the reasons I sold the kit was that the entrance to the hold was far too narrow for a 1/35 Sherman flail tank to pass through. I only know pics of Ian MacGognagle's superb 1/35 build, he opted for LCT 610 :




Regards,

Arjan

 

A Flail tank had only inches to spare when passing through the bows of an LCT(4), so maybe the Flail itself was a bit too wide for 1/35 scale? Loading a craft as depicted by Ian MacGonagle in his otherwise beautiful (if somewhat fanciful) diorama would be extremely tricky to achieve, if at all possible, without using cranes to load the two tanks (AVRE Bobbin and Flail) fore.

Michel

 

I don't think the 1/35 vehicles I tried were too wide. The 1/35 LVT(4) model had virtually no clearance on either side, certainly not the amount of clearance seen here :



Besides, the entrance in the 1/35 Nexus plan was also quite a bit wider which at the time seemed to confirm my conclusion.

Arjan

 

Looks to me very much the same as on Henk's post #37 above

However, tolerances are so tight here that the smallest error of dimension in either of the scale models might make the difference between pass or not:

LCT tank deck width at bows:
between walls = 12' 10"
between securing rails = 12' 4"
between various fittings = 11' 8"

Overall width of:
Sherman Flail Crab = 11' 6"
LVT Mk.II or Mk.IV = 10' 8"

Michel

 

Never say 'never' (nor 'always'):

Here are two examples side by side of the hinged door between tank deck and crew quarters. These are craft undergoing repairs at Southampton Dry Docks after D Day. Craft on the right is 708:

 

Interesting photo, pity there doesn't seem to be a book about these RN LCTs. Talking of photos, you may not know these LVT(4) ones :

Wolphaartsdijk (Zuid-Beveland), with men of the Dutch "Irene Brigade" if I remember correctly :



Zaamslag (near Terneuzen) probably October 1944 :




Regards,

Arjan

 

Great photos! It's always nice to see new pics of LVT. Do they come from one of the many excellent Dutch 'beeldbanken'?

The first pic must show an LVT4 of 77 Aslt Sqn RE, from the barely visible (because red) squares on each side of the 1A marking. Pity that the WD number is partially hidden.

Michel

 

Another view of Lt SAUNDERS' nominal mount LVT(4) 1A 'ESQUAY' P5822219 from 80 Aslt Sqn RE, this time in Langstraat, Zoutelande, on or after 2 Nov 44:

Source: LVT(4) Buffalo, Zoutelande, 2 november 1944 - WWW.TWENOT.NL

Michel

 

Of course I do know the Twenot thread in which the Esquay pic was posted, I actually contributed to it . I found the pic taken in Wolphaartsdijk on a site about the Dutch " Prinses Irene Brigade" (a unit composed of Dutch men who had escaped to England during the war and had received their military training there). The pics taken in Zaamslag were from my contact in the local history society of Terneuzen.

Arjan

 

Arjan,

Thanks for your answers. It was indeed thanks to your posting here, and before that on Twenot, that I found the great picture of 'ESQUAY' in Zoutelande, which fits nicely in this thread .

Michel

 

On the occasion of the 75th anniversary of Capt Saunders' death at Westkapelle, I have updated my post #2 above by adding a high resolution photo of the mass of LCT berthed at Southampton.

Michel

 

Remembering today on the 75th Anniversary of Captain John Holland's death RIP John

 

Thanks again Michel for a brilliant thread.

Regards Mike.

 

John Holland Saunders was my mother’s dearly beloved cousin. She and her brother and sister talked about him till their deaths 4-5 years ago. He was apparently the most fun loving person and liked by everyone who met him.. As an only child he spent most of his time with my mothers family on their farm. The Eagle in Kidmore End Parish Church is in his memory. Holland is a family name !

 

John was my mother’s beloved cousin always talked about until her death 4 years ago.

 

John Holland Saunders was my mother’s cousin. Holland was their grandmothers maiden name. My mother her brother and sister forever talked about him until their deaths. As an only child John spent his childhood with them on my Grandfathers Farm. He was apparently the most fun loving person and has never been forgotten.