23rd Long Range Penetration Brigade

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by Fitzgeraldr, May 25, 2014.

  1. Fitzgeraldr

    Fitzgeraldr Active Member

    on the IWM site they have a recording of Gerrard Terence Weiler who served with the 23rd and he details some of the movement, I wondered if anyone had transcribed his recordings as this would save me some time in doing this.

    Thanks
     
  2. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review... Patron

    Did I mention the box files, me ol' Bamboo... :biggrin:
     
  3. Fitzgeraldr

    Fitzgeraldr Active Member

    What box files?
     
  4. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review... Patron

    Don't panic... I'm talking the 3ID files... overall command structure stuff... some gems have found I but patience have you must...
     
  5. Fitzgeraldr

    Fitzgeraldr Active Member

    Many Thanks Obi Wan
     
  6. mapshooter

    mapshooter Senior Member

    23 Bde was one of the bdes with an interesting line in opponents: German, Vichy French and Japanese. Italians are a bit unclear. All battalions in the bde were regular army units (ie 1st or 2nd battalions).
     
  7. Fitzgeraldr

    Fitzgeraldr Active Member

    the 1st bn Essex had been topped up with men from Home Bn, as my Grandfather had served with 2/4th Bn Essex in East Anglia from 1941-42 when he shipped abroad with the 1st Bn
     
  8. KipL81

    KipL81 New Member

    First post, and maybe a bit late to ask... I'm researching a family member who died south of Nerhema just above Kohima on 25th May 1944, he was serving in the 1st Battalion Essex Regiment. From this info, can I assume he was also part of the 23rd LRP Brigade? Does this also mean he was in Columns 44 or 56 of the Chindit units? Was hoping to find out more specifics of his possible mission at time of death and not really sure where to concentrate my research.. the 23rd LRP or the Chindits?
     
  9. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi,

    I'm hoping some of our other 23rd Brigade forum members will come along soon and confirm a few things for you. 1st Essex were certainly part of 23rd Brigade who were a Chindits unit, but who never fought inside Burma, being saved back by Slim to work around Kohima instead. 1st Essex formed columns 44 and 56 as you say and both patrolled around the village of Nerhema during May 1944.

    Attached are some pages of the 23rd HQ War diary, showing a summary of activity across all columns for the month of May. 44 and 56 columns feature on the far right of each page. These might help you learn more about their movements and at least confirm their presence at the location at that time.

    Good luck going forward.

    DSC06039 copy.JPG DSC06040 copy.JPG DSC06041 copy.JPG DSC06042 copy.JPG
     
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  10. KipL81

    KipL81 New Member

    Thanks for the speedy info! Very kind of you, and to attach photos too. Seeing the name Nerhema on those scans definitely confirms that he must've been in 44 or 56 column. I don't quite understand fully the abbreviations, but this looks great for further research! As far as I can ascertain from the commonwealth graves website my relative was killed along with 2 others on May 25th which there's no mention of here. (But perhaps that was the day they found the bodies?) Look forward to talking more with you and any others on here who have knowledge on this area!
     
  11. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi,

    You may well be correct in that he could have been lost or killed earlier and not found until the 25th. It would have been very mixed up picture around Kohima at that time, with ambushes set by both sides and positions won and lost over short periods.

    Having a quick read through of the scans, some of the abbreviations present are:

    DAS-Direct Air Support
    NES-Non effective strength

    Still hoping that our 23 Brigade members will pick up your thread soon.

    Best wishes

    Steve
     
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  12. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Here are the file references for some 1st Essex related diaries at the National Archives in London:

    Battalion war diaries for India and Burma:
    WO172/860-1942
    WO172/2508-1943
    WO172/4878-1944

    There is also a file containing information on those men lost and reported as missing. These files can sometimes be useful for picking out actions and engagements from dates known. WO361/655.
     
  13. KipL81

    KipL81 New Member

    Excellent info Steve, thanks for this. Guess I'll have to get over to London and check out the national archives for a browse! Assuming that's how it works? Could be needle in a haystack mission looking through it all, but probably well worth it to get a better idea of what was happening at the time.
     
  14. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    KipL81,

    If you go back to post 7 on this thread, you will see that forum member Drew 5233 does a copying service for other members at the National Archives. This might be the best way forward for you. Diaries can vary in size and in information contained within. It is rare that lower ranked soldiers are mentioned in these pages, but it should at least tell you where the unit was serving etc.

    The WO361 series are for soldiers reported missing in action. Whether this will contain anything about your loved one is impossible to say, but you never know. On several occasions with the Liverpool Regiment in Burma, I have discovered groups of men reported missing against a certain date, which then assist in making judgements on what happened to those killed outright around those times.

    Steve
     
  15. Fitzgeraldr

    Fitzgeraldr Active Member

    Hi KipL81, My Grandad was a member of the 1st Essex and yes they were part of 23 LRP, Columns 44 & 56 I have the 1st Essex war diaries if you let me have the details of your family member I will do my best to see if I can help. unfortunately I am currently in Hong Kong and will not be returning to the UK till Early April but do contact me and I will share what info I can .
     
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  16. KipL81

    KipL81 New Member

    Excellent to hear your Grandad was in 1st Essex too Fitzgeraldr! Would love to see if we can find any information in the war diaries you have. Absolutely no rush at all my end, so after April sounds great if you find time.

    Information I have from the cwgc website is:
    Frederick Musselwhite aged 27
    date of death: 12/05/1944
    Number: 6019869

    Looking closer at the docs I see it mentioned I believe the original burial site as south of Nerhema? Then later reburied at Kohima war cemetery.

    Thanks for getting in touch, Gary
     
  17. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    There is an article on the brigade in the November 2020 edition of the British Journal of Military History (BJMH), pgs. 85-127, by George Wilton. It can be downloaded for free via Google: View of The Forgotten Chindits – 23 British Infantry Brigade

    I have not read it. Here is the Abstract:
     
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  18. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Thank you for the heads up.
     
  19. Weiler

    Weiler Member

    I have only just come across this. I am Terry Weiler’s son and during lockdown have been going through my father’s detailed diaries and letters including his service in India and Burma. If anyone has any specific questions I’d be happy to check his papers.
     
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  20. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Weiler,

    It is great that you found this thread on the forum. We would be very interested to hear about your father's time with 23 Brigade. You may wish to look at this thread as well which has 60 Field Regiment Royal Artillery connections.

    Chindit Unit ID
     
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