Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Ramiles, Jan 10, 2016.
It was an absolute Honour to do Steve.
Lest We Forget
Going back to the 1st post re. the 24th Lancers Roll of Honour ;-)
There's a roll of honour here: http://www.tankmuseum.org/museum-online/roll-of-honour
...at the Tank Museum that can be searched by regiment, with the list there for the 24th L:
Wililam C Armstrong
Leonard G Attwood
Cyril A Brindley
Joseph W Brown
Ronald H Carter
Henry P Compton
Arthur R Constable
Jack H Crane
Geoffrey C Dean
James G Derbyshire
Reginald J Falconer
Frederick JW Fielder
Geoffrey A Giles
Wilfred J Gillman
Sydney P Hearnah
Sidney H Jordan
Frederick JE Kirby
Arthur W Little
William CH Mant
Thomas W Mintoft
Eric R Newnham
Thomas H Rowland
Richard J Stephens
James F Stevenson
George A Taylor
Thomas S Turner
Henry J Turvey
Arthur CM Wager
Frank G Wagstaff
Reginald F West
This was recently on twitter:
BBC Radio Solent on Twitter
Re. Bill Stebbing:
And there is a bit of audio (circa 7mins) from Radio Solent here:
BBC Radio Solent - Julian Clegg, Remembrance 2017: Tales from a WWII tank driver from Dorset
Remembrance 2017: Tales from a WWII tank driver from Dorset
Bill Stebbing from Bearwood is 94 years old. Back in 1944 he was a young Corporal with the 24th Lancers who drove his tank up Gold Beach two days after the D-Day invasion.
Re. Trooper TURNER, THOMAS STANLEY
Service Number 7928117
Aged 34 'C' Sqn.
Royal Armoured Corps
John Turner on Twitter
Is there an account of the circumstances surrounding Major Arbuthnot being Killed in action ?
There are various details re Arbuthnot dotted around None Had Lances. There is also a stained glass Memorial Window at Nash Church near Tenbury Wells ( I have photos somewhere I took many years ago). The church was part of the Arbuthnot Estate. An Internet search will also yield more information about the family as - the last time I looked, again many years ago - there is a dedicated web site to said family.
Sorry I can't do more at the moment: having a very busy day.
Many thanks Steve
Re. "Is there an account of the circumstances surrounding Major Arbuthnot being Killed in action ?" I've pm'd what I know - plus...
There is a picture of Major Arbuthnot (from a few weeks before he was kia - when he was a Captain) on p87 of NHL, he's also in the picture of "the 24th L officers at Bridlington Sept 1943" on p45, and the second edition of the 24th Lancer - in field July 1944 - Newsletter - Lancer Life - has an obituary for Major Arbuthnot written by the Rev. Mark Green: 24th Lancers Newsletter: 'Lancer Life'.
Which I aim to transcribe (eventually ;-)
Further re. Arbuthnot: There was a ref. in my grandfather's correspondence - below:
Sgt B Symes
British Liberation Army B.L.A
Dearest Phyl and Rob,
Many thanks for yours of the 13th it arrived this evening, so my mail comes in a lot quicker than yours.
My health is O.K. The weather out here has dried up and now we have dust. Not ordinary dusty sort of dust but dust in complete clouds, we make it ourselves of course. There’s no escape from it especially in the back areas. When we rest for a while we wash all our clothes and sponge bath right away, we don’t get dirty now only dusty.
So Rob has become the complete proffessor (that must be spelt wrongly). I hope too that the specs will calm him down.
No I’m not worrying about you, there’s no doubt you will have everything done that can be done, apart from the fact that now you are O.K. you are quite capable of seeing to things yourself.
Casualties don’t find their way into my letters if I can help it, Spud and Eric weren’t too bad, but as you are writing to Lady Arbuthnot I feel I must tell you that her son Sir Robert was killed just over a fortnight ago. It was a sad blow to all of us as he was such a fine young chap, one very seldom met one such as he was. I couldn’t tell you this before as there are certain rules to which we have to conform.
There was a good article in a Sunday paper we had here, "The People" it was in.
It said “No wine, no song, no Mademoiselle, Normandy, No Bon.” It’s a curious place, it’s certainly true. They have nothing to sell except a few clothes in some of the shops. There was one thing I would like to have bought had it been possible, a lace blouse or jumper, a most lovely thing. I visited a cathedral the other day; it was untouched by the war. They certainly know how to build them places, it was well worth visiting. As for wine they sell ordinary red wine which used to be five francs a bottle at ten francs a tot, one buys one only, they also sell a drink I know as Calvados, the troops here call it Cognac, it’s raw and is really apple Brandy, so we’re a sober crowd. As for the dames, we didn’t see many before, we see less now, we saw an officer walking with a girl the other day and everyone was quite startled, it really was the only soldier we had seen with a girl, and quite honestly I don’t think the troops are interested. I think the war has become really serious to everyone mind, everyone wants to get it over, everyone is literally sick of the sight and smell of war. We all knew that sooner of later it will end and we all wonder exactly what has to happen first, we know that it is only a matter of time before the German army is either captured or knocked-out just as their navy has been and their air force is almost.
We had a bottle of Lager Beer last night, from Scotland, and Sgts a bottle of Whiskey (8/6) or Gin (6/6). I chose Whiskey, as we are allowed only one each month we shan’t have to drink too much at once.
So that’s all for this time, except that the cows are having trouble keeping the flies down. All my love to you two darlings. Regards to the folks from your loving husband Ben. XX
Capt. Robert Houlton Hart, MC
KIA 18 Aub 1944 in Notre Dame du Rocher, Normandy, fighting with 23H.
Banneville-La-Campagne War Cemetery:
Tpr. John (Jack) Kenneth Bushnell
KIA 4 Sep 1944 in Antwerp.
Tpr. Edward Graham Newton
KIA 4 Nov 1944 in Deurne, Belgium.
Cpl. Alfred Philip Packman
KIA 9 Aug 1944 in La Barbiere, Normandy, fighting with 23H.
Bayeux War Cemetery:
Sgt. Christopher Thomas Patrick
KIA 1 May 1945 in Sahms, Germany
Many thanks Harkness,
There's a ref here:
24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944
To a list of those 24th L - posted to the 23H.
Ps. I'm sure someone has explained in detail which regimental emblem goes on a grave. But I am intrigued as to the ones that still say 24th L even into the time after the 24th were disbanded.
I feel particularly sorry for Packman - he'd literally just arrived at La Barbiere to join 23H. He was killed by a single (possibly allied) shell. The incident makes the very last page of Geoff Bishop's book "The Battle: a tank officer remembers":
Sevenoaks Chronicle, 1 Sep 1944:
As if this weren't enough, Packman's mother had been murdered by their next-door neighbour back in 1930.
I hadn't noticed that at the time I took the photo of packmans headstone but when I was posting it on the forum I noticed it then. I would like to know why it happens I wonder if its worth emailing the cwgc to see if they know why?
It's to do with their 'home Regiment' albeit that I don't know why some changed and others didn't. A classic example is Robert Arbuthnot whose headstone is not 24th Lancers even though he had been with them for some time before he was killed.
Dunton Green War Memorial:
Re. Corporal Cyril E. Burnet
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2806449/BURNET, CYRIL EDWARD
Corporal BURNET, CYRIL EDWARD
Service Number 7927885
"C" Sqn. Nottinghamshire Yeomanry
Royal Armoured Corps
Son of Horace Alfred and Lilian Maude Burnet; husband of Hilda Mary Burnet, of West Wickham, Kent.
NHL p232 has him in "C" Squadron of the 24th L. prior to the disbandment of the 24th L at the end of July 1944 - start of August 1944.
My grandfather, in WW2 correspondence, mentioned that whilst they were in the 24th L together "Corporal Burnet" was "in his troop", and later when the letter was written when gd was in the SRY, Corporal Burnet was one of those recently KIA.
There is a picture here on Karl's Facebook page: The Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry 1939-1945
Of Corporal Burnet's SRY "C" squadron Firefly tank entering Gheel on the 10th September 1944.
Nb. the name seems to be spelled either Burnet or Burnett variously, mostly "Burnett" now in many books, however it is "Burnet" in "None Had Lances", on the CWGC site, and on the 24th L's nominal roll at disbandment here: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944
I asked Karl if he had a picture of Corporal Burnet and he said he has been looking for one.
There are a number of as yet unidentified 24th Lancers in various pictures though that might possibly have been him.
All the best,
Edit: There is a picture of Corporal Cyril Burnet here: The Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry 1939-1945
Burnett by Ramiles posted Oct 11, 2019 at 2:21 PM
Re. Trooper William (Bill) Mant
Who was a driver in "C" squadron of the 24th L.
Potentially - I think perhaps - of Lt. Bertram Garai's Firefly 5th Troop "C" Squadron 24th L tank. Though the dates are confusing me a little at present, as with William Mant (KIA on 8d6m1944) there is a difference with Padre Mark Green's diary notes of Lt.Garai's being brought in wounded - perhaps sometime on the 9th June (ref. on p122 of NHL).
There is a picture here: Fallen Heroes of Normandy | Detail
And a little bit of description a bit further down the page, to quote:
"Eventually in 1941 he became a Trooper in the 24th Lancers, Royal Armoured Corps, and later took part in the D-Day landings. On the 8th June 1944, two days after D-Day, Bill was driving his Sherman tank, in company with a number of others, along a dusty lane near Tilly, about ten miles west of the German-held town of Caen. There the group encountered heavy enemy anti-tank fire from the German “88s” and several of the tanks were hit and put out of action. Among them was the tank being driven by Bill Mant. He is believed to have been killed outright."
Perhaps, if he landed with many of the later 24th on the 7th June 1944 - the two days later -ref. there would take dates up to the 9th.
Separate names with a comma.