27th AB East Riding Yeomanry and 13/18 Hussars Help

Discussion in 'Vehicle Names and Census Numbers' started by Thundergrunt, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. Thundergrunt

    Thundergrunt Active Member

    Hello All

    Newcomer to the site here and WWII armor enthusiast and Model builder, I have been searching high and low for months and was told by a friend to ask here is that is best information around. Ok so here it goes. I am looking for the Numbering and organization of the East Riding Yeomanry on Day, I have read that they carried the same style numbering ,tac symbols and naming convention as the 13/18 H except that they had Blue and white numbers. and were of a 4 troop/4 tank organization? except that the Firefly was the numbered the second tank in the troop. I have only seen 1 picture and I think it was #52 " Cass something" and looked like a SHIII. Been told in the Model world that #'s 2-6-and 55 were FF"s. does anyone know the breakdown and names of the ERY I would be immensely appreciative.

    Second question concerns the 13/18Hussars. I have seen that Firefly's #67 and 71 wer loaded on LCT's with their troops, so would #'s 75 and 79 have been the 2 CB firefly's for the 13/18 or would it have been 2 different ones altogether because one went to support A Sq and the Other to B Sq, I also should have bookmarked it but thought I read on a blog that 1 of them was #58 and was name "Bethany, Beth, or Bertha" don't know in my head that is what I remember. Thank you all in advance and eagerly await your replies.

    Sincerely
    EUgene
     
  2. Thundergrunt

    Thundergrunt Active Member

    Still looking, is this the right forum ? Let me know if not.
     
  3. nfh249

    nfh249 Junior Member

  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I have the 27 Armoured Bde, East Riding Yeomanry and 13/18 Hussars war diaries covering 1944. If I get time I'll look through them for you if you don't get any joy from anywhere else. I'm just so busy at the moment so feel free to use me as a last resource.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  5. Thundergrunt

    Thundergrunt Active Member

    I appreciate it. I am just really looking for the numbering of the ERY's Tanks I know they had blue numbers with white outline. just want to know the Squadron layout.<br /><br />
     
  6. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Eugene

    usually the Armoured Regiments held to the establishment - but with the onset of the fireflies one Sherman would be dropped for
    the fireflies - the establishment was therefore sometimes four squadrons of four troops of four Tanks- whereas the Tank

    Regiments( the heavy mob) have three squadrons of five troops of three Tanks----All that changed of course with the advent of

    "Battle Tanks' when everyone became "Armoured' then Tank/ Engineers came on the scene - which it is to-day…

    Cheers
     
  7. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    1st ERY
    M5 Stuart
    SEA HORSE T224213

    M4A2 Sherman
    BURY T263162 No. 36
    CARPE DIEM T151979 No. 42
    CASSIUS T147152 No. 52
    CASSUS BELLI T147164
    COUPE DE GRACE
    HELLFIRE CORNER
    HOOD T151214

    M4A4 Sherman Firefly
    NINA T148678
    SPITFIRE T212632

    13th / 18th Hussars
    B Squadron
    M4A4 Sherman
    BEATTY T146668 No. 57 5 troop
    BLAKE T150120 No. 58 5 troop
    BLIGH No. 56 5 troop
    BOADICEA T147622 No. 49
    BOLEYN No. 47
    BORGIA T211711 No. 48
    M4A4 Sherman Firefly
    BETH T147524(?) No. 58

    Cheers
    Kevin
    Hi Eugene,

    I hope these are of interest and help.



     
  8. Thundergrunt

    Thundergrunt Active Member

    Thank you all for the information, my knowledge base is getting broader, can anyone point me in the direction or know of how the ERY was Numbered in their Sqaudrons??
     
  9. One possible turret numbering system for ERY around D Day would be as follows (all tanks Sherman Mark III except when indicated otherwise. Underlined means Mark confirmed by photo. Not underlined mean Mark is presumed only):

    'A' Sqn
    1 Tp - 1, 2(Vc), 3, 4
    2 Tp - 5, 6(Vc), 7, 8
    3 Tp - 9, 10, 11, 12(Vc)
    4 Tp - 13, 14, 15, 16 - one of which a Vc
    SHQ - 17, 18, 19

    Obviously the odd tank here is No.12, a Sherman Vc , when the Firefly in 3 Tp should logically have been No.10. One possible explanation would be that 'A' Sqn (and perhaps every other Sqn in ERY) kept its fifth Firefly when the Regt changed from five-troop to four-troop WE. Hence both No.10 and No.12 could have been Fireflies?


    'B' Sqn
    1 Tp - 25, 26(Vc), 27, 28
    2 Tp - 29, 30(Vc), 31, 32
    3 Tp - 33, 34(Vc), 35, 36
    4 Tp - 37, 38(Vc), 39, 40
    SHQ - 22, 23, 24


    'C' Sqn
    1 Tp - 42, 43(Vc), 44, 45
    2 Tp - 46, 47(Vc), 48, 49
    3 Tp - 50, 51(Vc), 52, 53
    4 Tp - 54, 55(Vc), 56, 57
    SHQ - 58, 59, 60


    Please bear in mind that this is only a theory. Only the underlined Number/Mark combinations within each Sqn are confirmed, but they say nothing about the Troop and its 'rank' within the Troop.

    Michel

    Edit: Fireflies No.30 & 47 above were photographed with these numbers well after D Day, but did not necessarily wear the same number around D Day. No.47 is known to have been transferred on 16 Aug 44 from 148 RAC when it was disbanded, and No.30 does not wear the number on its turret so might have come from another unit too, because D Day veterans apparently retained their number on the turret (e.g. No.55).
     
  10. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

  11. Thundergrunt

    Thundergrunt Active Member

    Hello Gents

    Sorry for such a long delay in my replies,Im in a pretty n lengthly divorce and i Deployed to the Ukraine for a bit. And i am just getting back to my task list. Of questions.. kevin,michael or Dryan. For the ERY. Were the Spare tanks of each regt numbered. Also to throw another wrench into things I have a picture somewhere that i belive is ERY and #35 is a Firefly..


    2nd question would a 13/18 Hussars have a Firefly #79 in 4 troop of Csq.
     
  12. Thundergrunt

    Thundergrunt Active Member

  13. Thundergrunt

    Thundergrunt Active Member

    I hope my post above isn't a dumb ?, I am just new to the Sherman world.
     
  14. Welcome back Eugene !

    I'm afraid you'll have to lower your expectations: as far as I'm aware nobody knows the complete breakdown of tanks of the ERY, with each tank's name and turret number, not to mention T-number and crew members, on D Day, let alone over the whole of the war. That would be absolutely great, but what has already been replied to you pretty much summarizes what is known at this moment.

    You're mixing up two periods here. I thought you were looking for info on ERY on D Day? As captioned this photo was shot in Hertogenbosch on 27 October 1944, when ERY had become part of 33 Armd Bde, with the AoS number 52 instead of 53 on D Day, with many more Fireflies than on D Day and possibly a different numbering system. This photo is a partly censored version of IWM B 11382 here:
    http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205202599

    The tank is indeed a Firefly, from the gun barrel travel lock on the engine deck as you noticed, and also from the apparent presence of a loader's hatch on the turret roof, although this is less clear. The hull is that of a Sherman I, from the shape of the rear upper vertical plate, but whether it's a Hybrid or not cannot be determined from this angle. However, other photos of ERY Sherman I tanks around this period show only Hybrids, so it is most probable that No.35 was also an Hybrid.

    Re: 13/18 Hussars:
    No.75 was not one of the two CB Fireflies on D Day. No.75 was commanded by Sgt Diver of 3 Tp 'C' Sqn, and was indeed a Sherman Vc as proven by a photo, whereas the identity, or even the very existence, of No.79 is not known for sure. If it did exist, it most probably was part of 4 Tp 'C' Sqn, but whether it was a Sherman III or a Sherman Vc is open to discussion. It is also not known whether the two CB Fireflies had a turret number or not.
    What is certain though is that No.76 was a Sherman Vc, so again the 'logical' turret numbering system was not fully adhered to.
    No.58 was not a Firefly on D Day, but a Sherman VDD. Before D Day No.58 was Sherman V (not DD) T150120 'BLAKE' of 5 Tp 'B' Sqn, together with No.56 'BLIGH' Txxx496 and No.57 'BEATTY' T146668, as listed by KevinT above. It may however have been changed for a Firefly after D Day.

    Michel
     
  15. Thundergrunt

    Thundergrunt Active Member

    Michael,

    Once again thank you so much for the insight, I probably am because of the wealth of knowledge i see around here and my lack of searching skills. I have tried searching IWM, but i think,my computer doesnt like the site, because i have seen alot of the video and picture entries but can never open them, i dont even see where to. Also I have to search my notes but someone awile ago sent me a picture of the 13/18 C squadron Firefly Sergeants. And their #''s 67,71,75 and 79. I was hoping to be close to accurate for my modeling subjects. Thank you so much for the help. I am grateful, I have some 4/7 RDG ?'s and some SP ATK regiment ?'s also.
     
  16. Ben_Mayne

    Ben_Mayne Member

    Andy,

    Do you still have copies of the ERY diaries? Would be interested to have a quick chat. Im off to meet a D-Day vet from the ERY to document some interviews with him this week.

    Ben
     

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