27th Battalion Royal Marines 25th April 1944 - 8th Jan 1946

I hope some of the previous posters are still on the forums. I'm just beginning to find out about my grandfathers time in the marines and know he was in the 27th Battalion RM '44 to '46. In fact, seeing the battalion group picture posted above I'm pretty certain he's there in the third row, second in from the right. Maybe wishful thinking.

tbh interpreting all the info that's online and trying to place him is incredibly complicated. I have his Certificate of Service an its in my gallery in full if anyone can shed any light!

Thanks!

 

Hello Jeff and welcome.

Below a summary of the 27th RM Battalion, taken from James Ladd's book on the RM.

Steve

 

Thanks Steve, that's great. I'll try to do some further reading on that.

Excuse what may be a ridiculous question...his record shown the initials HBL which I discovered means "Home Base Ledger/personnel within UK". what is the actual significance of this? I presume it doesn't mean he never left the Uk?

Jeff

 

The HBL was just the accounting function which managed the records (pay and allowances and so on) for certain Royal Marines.

Steve

 

Thanks for that Steve, your help is appreciated.

 

Not strictly correct or incomplete as the battalion was recorded as follows post VE Day 8 May 45 but believe to be just one company until 1946

27th Infantry Battalion Royal Marines of 116th Infantry Brigade Royal Marines attached to 1st Canadian Army
Commanding Officer: Lieutenant Colonel NH Tailyour
Battalion Headquarters: Bad Zwischenahn, Landkreis Ammerland

date unknown: Stadtkreis Wilhelmshaven
17 Jun 45 – relieved by 102nd (7th Lincolns) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment Royal Artillery of 31st Anti-Aircraft Brigade Royal Artillery
18 Jun 45 – Ofener Straße, Stadtkreis Oldenburg – 2nd Canadian Infantry Division
9 Jul 45 – 3rd Canadian Infantry Division (Canadian Army Occupation Force)

date of returning to the United Kingdom is unknown – last listed 30 Mar 46

A Company – Emden with Naval Party 1745
B Company – Sengwarden later Marine Kaserne Wilhelmshaven with Naval Party 1738
Anti-Tank Platoon – Wilhelmshaven Hafen (Docks)

two companies detached to Naval Officer in Charge Cuxhaven
one company Headquarters Flag Officer Working Group Buxtehude

Details taken from higher command War Diaries – do not have them for HQ 116 Inf Bde and the Battalion

Hope this helps

21st Army Group later British Army of the Rhine (under construction)

 

It certainly does help and than you.

I now have a copy of James Ladds book but this extra info adds to that.

Chances are I’ll be back to more help, the knowledge on here is tremendous.
Jeff

 

Well this is embarrassing (but I only knew him as an older man). I showed the Battalion photo in question to both my parents and they immediately became emotional in seeing my grandfather in uniform...my mother immediately pointed to her father in the back row, far right hand side.. not who I thought!! I see it now but it shows how perilous it can be to focus on an image without your mum to keep you right!!

She tells me that her father rarely spoke about his wartime activity especially as his wife (my grandmother who he met when she worked in the NAAFI) died early leaving him to bring up my mother from aged 11 alone. He actually did a wonderful job and I remember him as one of kindest men I've ever met.

The one thing she did know was the he landed on Juno beach, which i think ties in with the 27th RM being attached to the Canadians, but please tell me if I'm wrong about Juno and the 27th....these details are very complicated to work out for a non-military historian.

 

Thanks to Lee@ARCRE have received 116/117 Inf Bde RM WDs May-Jun 45...being puzzled with 27 Bn RM also ordered their WD and "Higher Command" got it wrong by quoting stationed in Oldenburg until 1946...here goes:

27th Infantry Battalion Royal Marines command 116th Infantry Brigade Royal Marines from 1 May 45
Commanding Officer: Lieutenant Colonel NH Tailyour
Second-in-Command: Major JH Freeman
Battalion Headquarters: Viehdamm south-west of Bad Zwischenahn, Landkreis Ammerland
6 May 45 – Infanterie Kaserne, Stadtkreis Wilhelmshaven
15 May 45 – Südstrand south-west of Kaiser Whilhelm Bridge, Stadtkreis Wilhelmshaven
15 Jun 45 – advance party to United Kingdom arrived 18 Jun 45
17 Jun 45 – Stadtkreis Oldenburg – relieved by 102nd (7th Lincolns) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment Royal Artillery
23 Jun 45 – main party to United Kingdom arrived 26 Jun 45

Adding further details and amending 116/117 Inf Bde RM so will be available to view very soon.

21st Army Group later British Army of the Rhine (as always under construction)

 

116 Infantry Bde Royal Marines (my Grandad was Carrier Platoon Sgt of Bde HQ, and got his demob notice while the HQ was billeted in Buxtehude) went ashore into NW Europe as an "independent" infantry brigade assigned as part of Army Troops under command of HQ 1st (Canadian) Army.

What happened to that command arrangement after hostilities ceased, I haven't a clue, but in Late '44 to May '45, they were part of 1st (CAN) Army, along with a very substantial number of other Brit troops.

In effect, "independent" would mean they were a kind of tactical reserve of infantry troops that the Army HQ could flex to perform infantry tasks under the tactical control of lower HQs for limited periods of time.

Without seeing the War Diary for the Bde, and because there's practically nothing in the public domain about their time in NW Europe, it's hard to know whether that meant the individual Bns got parcelled out to other Bdes, or what tasks the Bde was assigned as a complete formation.

A search of CWGC records shows a (relatively) small total of troops killed from the constituent battalions, and - obviously - where they fought, which (from memory) ties into a very brief mention (in By Sea By Land, I think) of just one short, sharp action (2 days/nights?) in Holland in late autumn (?) 1944 - I'll bet I've posted about in this thread before now.

I see upthread that you have War Diaries for the Bde - I'd love to get my eyes on them.

JeffHorn
When I have time, I'll be interested to compare your old boy's Service Record with that of my "Pop" - his RM nickname, as befits a man who signed on for wartime service at the age of 35, bless 'im

 

Hello there
My father was in 27th Battalion RM from its inception and I have been to the National Archives to take photos of the Battalion War Diaries. I’m happy to send copies to anyone who is interested?

 

The_Stonker

As per my last I have the the WD for HQ 116 Infantry Brigade RM May-Jun 45 and working on it.
1 May 45 – Netherlands District – BDE HQ Vught-NL
6 May 45 – Estetal (Marine) Kaserne later Spey Barracks Buxtehude
16-28 Jun 45 – move to UK

Will publish soon...

 

I'm interested principally in the months prior to that - from the Bde's creation to VE day.

What's the TNA reference for the Bde Diaries please? Foolishly, having located them a year or two ago, I didn't make a note of that crucial detail

 

There are three contributors to this post who have not logged on for various periods, the OP December 2019 and Jeff Horn June '23 and Malcolm Nutt June '24 (not a post). About to send them all a PM suggesting they return to have a look. Assuming their interest remains and the email address given on joining is still valid.

 

Hi, apologies for disappearing from the thread, and thanks to davidbfpo for the nudge.

The war diaries will be great to see, I have considered a trip to the National Archives but live in Aberdeen so seeing them here will be much easier...thanks to those who have made the trip! Will be keeping a close eye on the thread from now on.

 

That is a very generous offer, on which I would like to take you up. I will send you an email address via Private Message on this site. Many thanks in advance.

 

You'll need to message @MoonRiver to take up his offer (posted this morning at 06:10)

 

Thanks, have just done that.

 

ADM 202/120 1945 Jan - 1946 Jan

 

I stumbled upon, and instantly ordered a copy of, this yesterday. Published by the RM Historical Society, sold by the RM Museum.

No idea how many pages, or how well written, or when it was published, but it should help to fill some of the gaping voids in my understanding Pop's personal war. I'd expect others on this thread to be interested too.

£15.00 + delivery

116 Infantry Brigade Royal Marines, North West Europe 1945 By George Gelder