2nd Bat East Yorkshire Regiment - Dunkirk

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Coulter, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Also one of those officers has a ribbon to the Military Cross, wonder who he could be.

    Could be a Battalion 'smoker' in France in 1940, as you have Xmas 1939 with them in Service Dress & this one shows them wearing Battledress.
     
  2. Coulter

    Coulter Junior Member

    Also one of those officers has a ribbon to the Military Cross, wonder who he could be.

    Could be a Battalion 'smoker' in France in 1940, as you have Xmas 1939 with them in Service Dress & this one shows them wearing Battledress.

    Forgive my ignorance Owen - whats a Battalion smoker?
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Forgive my ignorance Owen - whats a Battalion smoker?
    A party.
     
  4. Coulter

    Coulter Junior Member

    In the official reports there's lots of map references. How do i correlate these to a modern day map? I hoping to visit the area in a month or so and it'dd be great if i could track his movements by these map references

    It'd be great if i could track their movements on a modern day map - if anyone can help with this it'd be great

    Locations

    1940

    May 17 / 18 - EREMBODOGEN - River Dendre
    May 19 - WARCOING
    May 20 - WARCOING
    May 21 - WARCOING
    May 22 - WARCOING (Village of HERINNES)
    May 23 - WATTRELOS
    May 24 - WATTRELOS - LASSOS 416449 and 836443
    May 25 - NOORDSCHOTE - YSER CANAL 543729
    May 26 - as above
    May 27 - as above
    May 28 - NOORDSCHOTE - 554740 (BN HQ 641730)
    May 29 - NOORDSCHOTE - OP at 552736
    May 30 - YSER CANAL 554722 + 552786
    May 31 - NOORDSCHOTE - YSER CANAL (BRIDGE AT WULPEN)
    June 1 - 0130 hrs WITHDRAW TO BEACH AT LA PANNE
     
  5. Coulter

    Coulter Junior Member

    Sorry guys - another question

    Does the fact that he was a Drummer have any bearing on what his role would have been in B Company?

    Am i correct in understanding that he would have been a stretcher bearer or medical orderley?
     
  6. Coulter

    Coulter Junior Member

    Update on this.

    After looking in depth at the records showing the whereabouts of 2nd East Yorks - it's very likely he died on the retreat to the beach at De Panne.

    Although his name is on the Dunkirk Memorial the vast majority of fallen soldiers from 2nd East Yorks are buried at De Panne cemetery.

    Upon further research, this area was cleared by Belgian Civilians after the retreat, including the burial of bodies washed up at De Panne beach and roadside graves etc

    Within De Panne cemetery there are 79 graves of "unknown" soldiers - the likelyhood is that my Grandfather rests within one of them
     
  7. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    There is a File at Kew that concerns enquiries made into missing men from both the East and West Yorkshire Regiment. WO361/46

    There is a possibility of a mention here.
     
  8. Coulter

    Coulter Junior Member

    There is a File at Kew that concerns enquiries made into missing men from both the East and West Yorkshire Regiment. WO361/46

    There is a possibility of a mention here.

    Many Thanks indeed
     
  9. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Many Thanks indeed


    There is a vague possibility of further information being in WO361/118, but it does mean visitin KEW to read the File.


    Brian
     
  10. Coulter

    Coulter Junior Member

    There is a File at Kew that concerns enquiries made into missing men from both the East and West Yorkshire Regiment. WO361/46

    There is a possibility of a mention here.

    Thanks Brian............and so the mystery unravels a bit more.

    According to the war diary it led me to think he died at La Panne. Not so, WO361/46 documents many sightings of my Grandfather with two other comrades leaving La Panne on the 1/6/40 and heading towards Dunkirk.

    The last sighting was actually on Dunkirk beach whereby another member of his Bn saw Drummer Coulter on the beach (not wounded) heading for the pier on the 1/6/40.

    This is where the trail ends :-(

    Given that his body was never found? I can only assume one of three scenario's:

    He took pretty much a direct hit by a bomb on the beach

    He drowned trying to get on a boat and his body was never washed ashore

    He managed to get on a boat which was subsequently sunk and he drowned.

    All very depressing but i don't know enough about the situation on Dunkirk beach on the 1st to draw any other conclusions than those above.

    (Image copyright of National Archives)
     

    Attached Files:

    Owen likes this.
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    What a superb find, isn't it amazing what little bits of info are in TNA.
     
  12. Coulter

    Coulter Junior Member

    What a superb find, isn't it amazing what little bits of info are in TNA.

    Further to my last post, which may give an indication of how he met his fate.

    The two other soldiers he was with at the time on Dunkirk beach (documented) have memorials on Column 47 of the Dunkirk Memorial - no graves.

    This leaves me to believe that they collectively were blown up or that the boat that they were on was sunk - and they all subsequently drowned and none of their bodies were recovered?
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Some info for you on the 1st June at Dunkirk regarding losses, mainly French that is mentioned though I'm affraid but it will give you a bit of an idea on what was happening on the day:

    The evacuation continued full swing but German efforts to disrupt the operation were not unproductive: The detroyer HMS Keith, flying Rear Admiral Wake-Walker's flag, the destroyers HMS Havant and HMS Basilisk, the minesweeper Skipjack, the French destroyer Foudroyant, three French minesweepers, the passenger ships Brighton Queen and Scotia all being sunk. Loss of life could have bee greater but as soon as a ship was hit others promptly went to her rescue. The Brighton Queen had about 700 French troops on board when she sunk; the minesweeper Saltash picked up 400 French survivors, reporting that they 'behaved steadily and intelligently though nearly half of them were killed by the explosion'. The Scotia, with about 2,000 French troops, was hit by at least four bombs and sunk. The destroyer HMS Esk took off a thousand survivors and other ships rescued many more. Thus of the 2,700 men on these two ships about 2,100 were in fact saved and taken back to England. June 1st ended with 64,429 men landed in England, the second largest number transported in one day.

    ATB Blitzkreig In The West.
     
  14. Coulter

    Coulter Junior Member

    Some info for you on the 1st June at Dunkirk regarding losses, mainly French that is mentioned though I'm affraid but it will give you a bit of an idea on what was happening on the day:

    The evacuation continued full swing but German efforts to disrupt the operation were not unproductive: The detroyer HMS Keith, flying Rear Admiral Wake-Walker's flag, the destroyers HMS Havant and HMS Basilisk, the minesweeper Skipjack, the French destroyer Foudroyant, three French minesweepers, the passenger ships Brighton Queen and Scotia all being sunk. Loss of life could have bee greater but as soon as a ship was hit others promptly went to her rescue. The Brighton Queen had about 700 French troops on board when she sunk; the minesweeper Saltash picked up 400 French survivors, reporting that they 'behaved steadily and intelligently though nearly half of them were killed by the explosion'. The Scotia, with about 2,000 French troops, was hit by at least four bombs and sunk. The destroyer HMS Esk took off a thousand survivors and other ships rescued many more. Thus of the 2,700 men on these two ships about 2,100 were in fact saved and taken back to England. June 1st ended with 64,429 men landed in England, the second largest number transported in one day.

    ATB Blitzkreig In The West.

    Thanks Drew
     
  15. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    I assume you've already got this?...
     

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  16. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    In the official reports there's lots of map references. How do i correlate these to a modern day map? I hoping to visit the area in a month or so and it'dd be great if i could track his movements by these map references


    I don't know if this helps,but on the BEF 1:50,000 (GSGS 4040) scale series used back then, you'll find most of those map references located on Sheet 40 (or Sheet 40 SE in 1:25,000 scale (GSGS 4041)). Unfortunately, the nearest I have is Sheet 51 which is just a little too far to the south and Sheet 52 SW which is too far to the South East (infuriatingly, both are just one map away!)

    The modern IGN maps use a different grid referencing system.

    Dave.
     
  17. Coulter

    Coulter Junior Member

    I assume you've already got this?...

    Yes Dave, Pte Coulter definately had to make his way to Dunkirk after going to La Panne as he was spotted (not wounded) making his way to the pier

    I don't know if this helps,but on the BEF 1:50,000 (GSGS 4040) scale series used back then, you'll find most of those map references located on Sheet 40 (or Sheet 40 SE in 1:25,000 scale (GSGS 4041)). Unfortunately, the nearest I have is Sheet 51 which is just a little too far to the south and Sheet 52 SW which is too far to the South East (infuriatingly, both are just one map away!)

    The modern IGN maps use a different grid referencing system.

    Thanks

    Dave.
     
  18. marianna

    marianna Junior Member

    That's fantastic information - Thankyou

    One thing puzzles me though - if he did make it make to La Panne and most of his colleagues made it back to the UK - why would he have "presumed killed in action". Is it because a body was not available to identify? Would his colleagues have been asked upon their return to the UK about missing personnel?

    Regards

    PS I know this is a real longshot but is there a Veterans Association for his Battallion - be interesting to know if there's any survivors still living

    hi there, the regimental headquarters of 2nd bn east yorks regt is based on tower street in york, i have a friend that landed on gold beach and is still going strong, he may have information on your grandad, dickie was 2nd bn east yorks regt.
     
  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    :poppy: [​IMG]:poppy:



    The Dunkirk Memorial, Panels 43 to 47
    [​IMG]
     
    Owen likes this.
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    (PM sent)

    I now have the full diary from deployment with the BEF to Op Dynamo.

    Cheers Andy
     

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