2nd Lothians and Border Horse North Africa 1943

Hello,


I am a history student at University in the United States. I am working on a research project on British country houses during the Second World War. One of the houses I am researching is Thirlestane Castle in Scotland and home of the Earl of Lauderdale. His only son Ivor, Viscount Maitland was a Lieutenant in the 2nd Lothian’s and Border Horse and was killed in North Africa on Janaury 18, 1943. Casualty

Could you please help me? I am trying to find information on the 2nd Lothian’s and Border Horse and their actives in North Africa during January 1943.

Thank you for all your help,

Johnnie Manckiy.

 

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Ref the regiments war diary I can copy it for you if you want it. Just click my link below in red for further information.

Cheers
Andy

 

Johnnie -
Owen has it right that the battle in which this chap was killed was the Battle at Bou Arada when it was a to and fro type of conflict which stretched over wide area but essentially an Infantry type fight with the Irish Brigade deeply involved- so a good book is that of "Mailed Fist" by Ken Ford ISBN - 0 - 7509 - 3515 -4 that will give you a good account of the January '43 actions

Cheers

 

Wot, another Mailed Fist? Mine is by John Foley and describes a Churchill career in NW Europe!

Chris

 

Chris - as you are aware the Mailed Fist is the centre piece of the RAC badge and therefore is associated with the Assault Tanks such as the Matilda - Churchill et al and so the mailed fist of the 6th armoured division is perhaps a mis-nomer when applied to the 26th ARMOURED bde as they were in fact pursuit Tanks - BUT they landed in North Africa with the Torch landings and were equipped with both Valentine and Matilda's until the Sherman came along in early 1943 - whereas the 7th & 9th RTR also the Guards Tank bdes were equipped with Churchills in NWE as were the 21st and 25th Tank bdes in North Africa.
Cheers

 

Johnnie -
On re -reading the "Mailed Fist " of Ken Ford and his account of the Bou Arada battle - I think that you would be better off in having the Lothians War Diary as the book mainly deals with the Infantry part of the Battle with very limited mantion of both the Lothians and the 17/21st lancers wheras the War diary will give you a fuller account of the Lothian activities as well as a mention of your Chaps death and the possible circumstances of his demise.

Knowing students have trouble in raising funds for their beer and pizza's - if you have any difficulty in that area I would be more than pleased to pick up the tab for that war diary of that time
Cheers

 

I am so sorry for not writing before this. I have been buried in a pile of never ending home work. I would like to think everyone for all their help, it has meant at a lot.

It's great to have the name of the battle that I am looking for. I hate to impose on anyone, I was wondering if anyone would mind the next time they visit the archives in kew to please check the 2nd Lothian’s war diary for January 18 1943 and make a few notes for me on what was happing that day and if possible anything on the death that day of Lieutenant Ivor Maitland (Viscount Maitland)?

Thank you again for everything,

Johnnie

 

Johnnie, my father (trooper Henry Marshall ("B Company", 2nd LBH) took part in the battle at Bou Arada. I am currently researching through about 300+ letters he sent to his mother between 1940-1947 of his service in Tunisia, Italy, Austria and the BAOR in Germany. If I find anything relevent, i will let you know. cheers, Graham Marshall

 

Two other good, but general sources of information on the campaigns involving 2nd Lothian and Border Yeomanry are 'An Army at Dawn', and 'The Day of Battle". Both by Rick Atkinson (from the USA).

 

I'm probably not adding much, but as mentioned, the 2nd Lothian and Border Yeomanry, 17/21 Lancers. and 17 Field Regiment, RA were very supportive (an understatement) of the 38 (Irish) Brigade when they successfully resisted a determined German attack by 5 battalions of the 10 Panzer Division (Koch) on 18th January just to the east of the Bou Arada -Goubellat road. My father's battalion 2 London Irish then suffered over 30% casualties during the succeeding three days (19/20/21) on Hills 286/279. A dreadful time, amongst many dreadful times.

Grandstand/Two Tree/Three Tree Hills are some of the features in the area. I visited the battle area about 3 weeks ago - but April in Tunisia is quite a different proposition to January.

I usually use Richard Doherty's "Clear the Way" as an excellent source for information of that period, although as Tom mentions, these books (including Ken Ford's excellent one) quite often strongly focus on the infantry battalion's parts in the battles.

best regards,

 

drgmarshall
My copy of Atkinson's "Day of Battle" was consigned unceremoniously to
the shedder half way through reading this tome as the much vaunted pulitzer winner
had obviously failed to do elementary research by claiming that in the Liri Valley of may 1944-it was the 17th BATTALION of the 21st LANCERS which captured the small town
of PIUMAROLA..... I fail to understand why this man is acknowledged as a serious
Historian /Author as being an ex member of 26thBde in 6th Armoured Division-as you might note from my Avatar - we knew what was what - at all times
Cheers

 

Hi Graham,



I was delighted to read your post. Your fathers letters sound quite interesting. I would be very interested in anything you might come across on the battle or on 2nd Lieutenant Ivor, Viscount Maitland . Thank you for the name of Rick Atkinson’s two books.


Thank you for everything,


Johnnie

 

jmanckiy

I wouldn't spend too much of my students earnings in buying the " Day of Battle "

as even the merest research would note that the 17/21st Lancers was ONE regiment of

26th Armoured Brigade in 6th Armoured Division and NOT 17th Battalion of 21st Lancers

Cheers

 

http://www.nls.uk/catalogues/online/cnmi/inventories/acc11856.pdf



National Library of Scotland
Manuscripts Division







1st and 2nd:


1st Lothians and Border Yeomanry (2nd)

List of LBY men: (not complete)


1st Lothians and Border Yeomanry

 

Hi, I set up a 2L&BH Facebook page around 2011, which is now L&BH in general. Feel free to join it! The cover photo is of a 2nd L&BH B.Sqn Crusader, my dad's - he's on the right in the picture. Have you any images of your father you can share?

 

Hi Graham, 'B Company', I think he meant 'B Squadron'. Platoon, Company and Battalion are generally infantry terms. The R.A.C. uses Troop, Squadron, Brigade. Sometimes solders may may have used the terms incorrectly. Your dad served in my dad's unit! Do you know which troop he served in? 1 Troop, 2 Troop or 3 Troop? Dad, Trooper Buchan 'Buck' Taylor was in 2 Troop. He was wounded 23APR43. I'd like to know a lot more about your dad's account in North Africa as I have been researching the 2L&BH there quite extensively. Have you joined the L&BH Facebook Group?

 

Can you also tell me his Serial Number?

 

94405 2/Lieut. Viscount Maitland, Ivor joined the 2L&BH 12FEB40. He was temporarily posted to the 3rd (Horsed) Cavalry Training Regiment, after attachment as ADC to General Carrington. He rejoined the 2L&BH 7AUG40. He was then posted to the Wireless Wing AFV School, Bovington, on course. On 17JAN41 he went CTBA Wireless Wing, Bovington. However the next day 18JAN41 he was posted to Household Cavalry Motor Training Regiment, Windsor. On 3SEP41 Lt Viscount Maitland (94405) was posted back to the 2L&BH from Household Cavalry Motor Training Battalion. In the battle at Bou Arada at 4:45pm on 18JAN42, a high velocity 105mm (Artillery?) shell hit their tank (Crusader battle tank?). The tanks commander, Major Butler and Lt Viscount Maitland killed outright. Major Simpson, (the Commanding Officer of B Sqn) was wounded in this same action. My dad, 7891994 Trooper Buchan Taylor, was radio/gunner loader in Major Simpson's tank. The bodies of Major Butler, Lt Viscount Maitland remained in the tank until 6pm the following day when they and a Tpr Stratton were recovered. Tpr Stratton was buried at Sidi Abbes. Major Butler and Lt Viscount Maitland were buried at 687012.

I hope this helps.
Hereward
Administrator, 2L&BH Facebook Group.

 

To break it down a little more, before the 2L&BH were issued M4A2 Sherman's in March 1943, A, B & C Squadrons of the 2nd Lothian and Border Horse used Crusader battle tanks. The 26th Armoured Brigade indeed had have Valentine's and Matilda's, which were mostly used by the 16/5 and 17/21 Lancers that they supported. Sorry but I need to correct you a little here, but the Matilda is an Infantry support tank, it was too slow to be an assault tank like the fast and swift moving Crusader.