316773 Acting Lance Serjeant Leslie Cribben MM, Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry

From the Regiments war diary WO 171/861 Nottinghamshire Yeomanry August 1944

 

From WO 171/1286 4 Dorsetshire Regiment War Diary August 1944

 

Many thanks for providing that information, Tony

 

Tony,

I don't know if you have seen the book:

An Englishman at War: The Wartime Diaries of Stanley Christopherson DSO MC ...
By Stanley Christopherson

An Englishman at War: The Wartime Diaries of Stanley Christopherson DSO MC & Bar 1939-1945

But Sergeant Cribben is mentioned a few times in there. And Christopherson says he had recommended him for a DCM.
Distinguished Conduct Medal - Wikipedia

All the best,

Rm.

 

Indeed I have, also Stuart Hills "By tank into Normandy" and Leslie Skinner's "The man who worked on Sundays", he was Chaplain attached to the SRY.



Interestingly, whilst Stanley Christopherson recommended him for a DCM, if you look at the citation this appears to be crossed out and changed to the MM. Laurence Joseph Cribben (not Leslie as the citation) was KIA at Flesselles on 1 September '44, just two weeks after his exploits at the Noireau. This is described elsewhere on this site.

Thanks again

 

8thAs H&As by Ramiles posted Dec 12, 2015 at 9:30 AM

(I suspect that you've seen the above too)

By the way does the "The man who worked on Sundays" mention anything about

Trooper Eley (ex 24th L prior to his joining the SRY)
Casualty Details

Or...

Trooper Baxter (ex 24th L prior to his joining the SRY)
Casualty Details

By any chance? Both KIA on 14/08/1944

The war diary for the SRY has:

"B Sqn with 7 HANTS moved through and advanced to LES HAIES. They were opposed by a small enemy rearguard and S.P. and A/TK Guns but reached their objective with the loss of 2 Tanks destroyed and 2 damaged. About 70 P.O.W. taken."

But doesn't mention any casualties there, so I wondered if Eley & Baxter were KIA there, or wounded prior to this in some other action potentially perhaps?
A couple of tanks destroyed and 2 damaged looks non trivial though so I have wondered why the WD omits to mention any casualties, especially since in the next bit it goes on to say:

"C Sqn with 4 DORSETS moved through B and attacked PT 201. Almost 100 P.O.W. and again little opposition. " ?

Not quite sure what to make of that "little" there? But they had had some very big battles to compare it to I suppose.

I think in context though, (in retrospect) it make's perfect sense:

SRY 14th August 1944.


H. Hr. 0630. A Sqn with 5 DORSETS attacked PROUSSAY – 100-150 P.O.W. with little opposition.
B Sqn with 7 HANTS moved through and advanced to LES HAIES. They were opposed by a small enemy rearguard and S.P. and A/TK Guns but reached their objective with the loss of 2 Tanks destroyed and 2 damaged. About 70 P.O.W. taken.
C Sqn with 4 DORSETS moved through B and attacked PT 201. Almost 100 P.O.W. and again little opposition. After a conference in the early hours of the morning, the later hours were spent quickly with a Sqn engaged in mopping up with 1 Worcesters from LES HAYES to PT 201.

Anyhow I'd be interest to hear if there is anything about Eley or perhaps Baxter in there? (That is in "The man who worked on Sundays" book As I can't seem to find anything else out.

All the best,

Rm.

Ps. Actually though a bit of post thought lateral google delving I did manage to dig this up:
http://www.7thhampshires.co.uk/Mount_Pincon.html

Which has this detail: (also for the 14th August 1944)

14th August 1944
From Mauny the Battalion moved forward for an assault on St. Denis de Mere, supported by "B" Squadron, Sherwood
Rangers Yeomanry. The attack was made under a heavy artillery barrage from six field regiments and three medium
regiments. The start line was crossed at two o'clock, and by seven o'clock that evening the Battalion had completely secured
the village, despite considerable trouble caused by four enemy self-propelled guns. These guns knocked out four of our
tanks, but their positions were overrun and one of the guns was captured intact. The Battalion lost one officer and twenty-eight men, and captured seventy-four prisoners.

 

Also, as an aside, re. the Trooper's name (blanked out) in post # 1.

It seems a bit of a shame after all of these years not to be told his name now. I guess that this censor was standard in documents such as these? Does this "secret" still have to be kept? Are we likely to ever find out his name now, or is this still a cover that has to be kept closed?

All the best

Rm.

 

Thanks for that extra information.

You are absolutely right on the unknown trooper, I have often looked at the citation trying to decipher the trooper’s name, but without success. To my mind it starts with an M, but possibly an H, is about six letters long, and it may end with a ‘y’. I have tried fiddling with the image in a picture editor but still can’t make it out. Have also searched the TNA site for other SRY awards in case the trooper was also decorated, but nothing seems to fit.

This post …

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/23915-sherwood-rangers-yeomanry-in-normandyberjou-16-8-44/?p=470430

… describes the circumstances of Cribben’s death, the cemetery at Flesselles has three war graves, Laurence Cribben and Trooper Sharpe of the SRY, plus Harold Ruffell of the 12th Queen’s Westminster Bn..

All three were killed the same day, I believe that Ruffell’s unit was also part of the 8th Armoured Bde, and wonder if he had been allocated to the SRY and was a member of the tank crew. However he is not mentioned by Skinner, so perhaps not.

Regarding troopers Eley and Baxter I am afraid that I do not have a copy of Skinner’s book myself so am unable to look for you – any one else out there?

You are right that the diaries do not give any indications of casualties for the 14th, it would be interesting to see if the war diary contains the appendix that summaries the positions, activities and casualties for individual days.

 

I have seen an appendix to the August 1944 SRY war diary - which lists some officers wounded, one of whom, Cameron, was WIA on the 14th.

There is plenty of FOG but also a lot of info is known if you just know where to look and remain persistent enough not to just give up.... Sometimes it is just a case of asking precisely the right question in exactly the right ear... and just being very lucky that something clicks - I guess.

Some of the "detection" though is fascinating enough in its own right, particularly some of the more interesting tangential discoveries that sometimes come up along the way.

All the best,

Rm.


Ps. The SRY war diary lists large numbers of troopers, NCO's and officer names in some lists of personnel prior to and during the D-day prep. Do you know when Cribben joined the SRY? Just at the moment I can't seem to see his name there in these lists, but that might be because he joined them later in the NWE campaign? Or I'm just looking in the wrong place. I can't remember if you have (or have posted?) his tracer card yet? But this or other records might say this?

Nb. there is a "Hardy" in this list, a lance-corporal though (alas!), couldn't see much else as close as this, though there's a couple of Lieutenants Harding and Horley (no less). It's a big leap to assume much from that though I guess I'd say that the redacted trooper name looks like it begins with an H, is around 5 to 6 letters long and ends in a y. Someone with the original doc and an infrared camera/scanner might be able to distinguish something through all the obscuring ink but that's real detective CSI

If however, it is in fact an "M", rather than an "H" there is a Trooper Murphy, J (Army number : 14429885) shown in the SRY WD list. Gd. had a SRY friend named Jerry Murphy who he (Gd) said was twice mentioned in despatches, once in the SRY desert days and once published around the March 1945 entries of the London Gazette. It feels to me through like were this to be a "Murphy" the "p" would show in a similar way to what appears to be an evidence of a "y" and sit beneath the rest so that the tail at least of the "p" could be seen.

 

Cannot say exactly when Laurence Cribben joined the SRY, what I do know is that he was born in Dublin on 29 May 1912, he attended the Royal Hibernian Military School and is mentioned in the ‘Last Role Call’ when the school closed and was merged with the Duke of York’s Royal Military School on 16 July 1924:

http://www.richardgilbert.ca/achart/public_html/articles/hibernian/last_roll_call.htm

See Q company right hand column.

In the Folkestone, Hythe, Sandgate & Cheriton Herald, Saturday, 19 July 1924, there is a report on the closing of the school, and the ‘last inspection and prize distribution’:-

"Class III – First prize won by Cecil Walsh, son of the late Private Thomas Walsh, The Leinster Regiment, with 914 marks out of a possible 1,085. Second prize won by Laurence J Cribben, son of the late Corporal L Cribben, 14th Hussars, who obtained 905 marks".

[Corporal L Cribben, mentioned above, was awarded the Queen’s South Africa medal with the Cape Colony, Orange Free State and South Africa 1902 clasps when he was Private 4483 Private L Cribben 14th Hussars.]

On 31 December 1929, age 18, Laurence Cribben enlisted in the Royal Tank Corps at Liverpool for 6 years; his service number was 316773, which he carried with him.

The UK Army Roll of Honour puts his regiment at enlistment as 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards, RAC. I have seen some personal correspondence dated 20 May ’43 where he put his details as Corporal, Royal Dragoons, Armoured Car Wing, RAC Training Depot, Middle East.

As for the missing trooper ….. I think the penultimate letter has an upward stroke (b,d,h,k,l,t), this would fit in with Murphy but I agree, no p. Bearing in mind the typist got Cribben’s first name wrong, who knows !!

 

So,

CSI Murphy by Ramiles posted Jan 16, 2016 at 7:17 PM

I thought for the sheer hell of it I'd at least try to give it "a go". And I guess in someways there might be at least a half-way decent "Murphy" fit.

I think regretfully this will have nevertheless to be discounted though, albeit from my own memory of old fashioned typewriters also, sometimes the tail of the "p"'s (particularly when typing fast) can be very faint and hard to impossible to see, what tends to let this down fairly spectacularly sadly though is there are more than a handful of "p"'s that are unobscured in this doc, indeed most of the "p"'s there are fantastically clear - there's even an "approximately" typed out where the "p"'s are both not only very clear, their tails are actually below the "y".

Interesting that Cribben was born in Dublin. The Murphy my gd knew was also from Ireland (i.e. not just an Englishman with an Irish name) - granddad remarked on this as standing out amongst the Notts Yeomanry when he was describing some of the SRY's he'd got to know.

Perhaps from the enlarged versions of the redacted texts you can yourself better make something more out?

I can see distinct patches of light and dark there and there seems to be something rounded about the second letter for example, perhaps an "o,c,u", but it would have to be a letter that went well with an initial H or an M. In some of the versions of the redacted name the second to last letter (to me) looks slightly more like a "t" than an "h", that said though the "y" at the end looks a bit over-emphasised, like it's been specially gone over with the censor's pen so that the tail of the "y" is made greater, by this overlay, than it initially was. It still looks very much like a "y" though!

I can always go back to the SRY trooper list and see if there is a better match for any of the other names in there. But given that it is a list made prior to D-day there's nothing to say that this particular trooper would have been on the SRY roll back then!

Anyhow, I think that's that as far as I can currently see! You never know what might come up though... I'll certainly be keeping an eye out for more about Cribben now.

All the best,

Rm.

 

There was a recent tweet by James Holland (March 23rd 2016) of a copy of a couple of pages of Padre Skinner's casualty book for the Sherwood Rangers here: https://twitter.com/James1940/status/712664952008544256

 

Good spot, thanks for posting, but some grim details.

 

MURPHY J Cpl. (WIA 18/11/44) A Sqdn.

MORLEY T Tpr. (WIA 24/9/44) B Sqdn.

MULLEY James Robert Sgt. (DOW 13/4/45) A Sqdn.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2199588/MULLEY,%20JAMES%20ROBERT

None of these men were from the Recce Squadron though. I have never seen a nominal roll for the Recce Squadron.

Guy

 

Thanks Guy,

Can I ask please what's your source re

MURPHY J Cpl. (WIA 18/11/44) A Sqdn. (Jerry Murphy - I think/presume?)

I guess it's Padre Skinner?

Padre Skinner Sherwood Rangers - Google Search

Including: IWM Duxford tells the moving story of the Padre who landed on D-Day | Culture24

With:

Skinner’s dedication and bravery - he was mentioned in dispatches and received the French Croix de Guerre with palm and the Belgian Chevalier of the Order of Leopold II with palm – was well known in the regiment as he scoured the battlefields looking for the bodies of the fallen.

On September 2 1944 he recounted how he entered a village which was still held by the Germans:

“Left driver and truck, entered village via ditch…Made way to village parsonage. Bodies of Sgt Cribben and Trooper Sharp beautifully laid out in white shrouds having been washed. I stitched the bodies up. Cure [priest] in robes led funeral cortege down street. The Germans had watched the funeral procession and seen the service from their tank without interference.”

Also: Padre Skinner's War

A Remembrance Sunday feature based on the war diary of Padre Leslie Skinner, Chaplain with the Sherwood Rangers from D-Day to VE-Day. With the memories of the Padre's comrades - Major John Semken, Lt. David Render and Cpl. Ernie Hawkins - and readings by serving chaplains and Rev. Skinner's daughter, Annette Conway.
First broadcast on 15th November 2005 BBC Radio 4
Produced by Alan Hall

All the best,

Rm.

 

Could it be Huntley?

 

I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm not sure if there is evidence of the 't' and 'l' i.e. two upward strokes and room for the 'e' before the 'y'. I wonder if he also received some sort of award or MiD, if anyone has a list.

 

Tony,
Sergeant C Handley received a MID, no date.
Sergeant G Murphy also received a MID and he was attached from the Royal Signals.
Guy

 

Thanks Guy,

I guess that there is a fair chance then that the "Sergeant G Murphy" you mention above (post#19) was the chap my gd said he knew. Gd. said that he (Murphy) was mentioned in dispatches twice, once in the desert and once in Normandy, but doesn't give much/more info. - just that it was unusual I guess in the SRY to have a couple of MIDs. Also the "attached from the Royal Signals" to me seems to make sense, at least context-wise judging by the info I think I have to hand. I am forever "perplexed" ;-) / "stumped" by the lack of info now on what the MID's were actually for, even comments I guess too that they were often for an overall effort - not necessarily for just one particular thing. I would (sort of half-assume) that whoever was with Cribben (albeit with name redacted above) stood a chance of getting "something" too. But just speculation now after all of these years.

The...

8thAs H&As by Ramiles posted Dec 12, 2015 at 9:30 AM

Has "14" MiDs for the SRY from D-day to date, so there weren't dozens and dozens being given out. And I have seen mention of a number of officers in the SRY getting them so that cuts down the number of possibilities further I guess for individual SRY troopers or NCO's getting them.

All the best,

Rm.