34 LA Regt RA; 92 LAA Bty RA

Hi all,
I have just started researching my father-in-law's activity with RA in UK, North Africa, Italy and Greece. Visited National Archives and copied pages from War Diaries for his unit and now have questions arising as I work through. First is what was "Meltingforce" in Egypt 1942?

 

Welcome to the board.

I'm not familiar with this one, but in general '~force' is used as a suffix for an ad-hoc/improvised formations assembled for a limited duration or purpose.

Very often, the name (often the surname) of the commanding officer (usually a colonel upward) is the name to which the suffix is appended: MacForce, Nickforce etc; alternatively, the name might be that of a location: Arkforce, Habforce.

Column is similarly employed: Robcol, Ackcol, Squeakcol...

 

Welcome Steve and good luck!

 

Thank you. The unit I am looking at is 34/92 LAA Bty and Meltingforce (sometimes two words but mainly one) seems to be issuing orders close to Cairo. 92 LAA Bty later joined 4th Indian Division.
I am really new to this and am having difficulty in finding map references which indicate the tos and fros of movement orders

 

Welcome

 

BRITISH TROOPS COMMAND "EGYPT" (Gen. by C.A. Stone)

[...]

74th Medium Tank Brigade "Melting Force" (equipped with dummy wooden and cardboard tanks).

From the Italian:
L'Esercito Britannico in Nordafrica al 23-10-1942

 

One of the forming up areas for Op. Bertram was named 'Melting Pot':

Operation Bertram - Wikipedia



Source:
https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=fQPMDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA46-IA33&lpg=PA46-IA33&dq="Operations+MARTELLO,+MELTINGPOT+and+MURRAYFIELD+were+complementary+plans"&source=bl&ots=3TAQES4nr6&sig=ACfU3U2n9M3b7K0tMUw5UD5wdu21a0hiAg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjWupil36eAAxXtklYBHfWhCgUQ6AF6BAgMEAM#v=onepage&q="Operations MARTELLO, MELTINGPOT and MURRAYFIELD were complementary plans"&f=false

 

Thank you for the very useful reference. All makes sense as I recall my father-in-law talking about dummy tanks and the War Diaries task 92 LAA with going out in support of Tanks.
Next question - how do I find out the locations of map references, some 4 digit but mostly 6 digit?

 

Map references always provide what are effectively two numbers, longitude and latitude (east to west and south to north). The more digits there are, the more precise the reference, like decimal numbers. You need to combine them with a two letter code which tells you which map sheet to look at.

For instance, 1276 would tell you "somewhere in the square 12 across and 76 up". 124765 would be "within the square 12 across and 76 up, a point 4/10 of the way to the next square west to east, and 5/10 of the way to the next square from the south to the north".

Often the war diary page will make a mention in the upper left of a location or name the map.

 

PS this site doesn't include North Africa at all but has some info related to the system.

The "Coordinates Translator"

 

Hello and welcome to the forum.
Lesley

 

I understand the basics of map reading but wondered what maps I would need to look at to find where the War Diaries references are

 

Steve, I always check RA units with ra1939-45 website
:
The Battery number comes first followed by the Regt.

92 (Loyals) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA - The Royal Artillery 1939-45
then double check to see it the numbers fit. The Battery numbers don't match.

34 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA (TA) - The Royal Artillery 1939-45

34 LAA Regt 92 Bty was in the 1st Army which fought at Medjez Tunisia in May 1943
The RA website does not mention the Indian Division but they were definitely there. (Marked on my sketch map in Red).
4th Infantry Division (India) - Wikipedia

Might pay to check your notes. (or am I going cross eyed)
I am sure Derek Barton (who owns the site) will be interested as he is keen to spot omissions or potential mistakes..

Enjoy your project and good luck!

 

Welcome to the forum

 

Thanks for the clarification. MY father-in-law put himself down as 92/34 LAA Bty. in Egypt 1942, Libya 1942-43, Tunisia 1943, Italy 1944 where he moved to 65/34 LAA Bty and remained with them CMF until Feb 1945 when he was transferred to Driver Training School (I think in Trani) to July when he was sent to Greece with "E" British Instructional Team. One of his photos is dated 1/11/1942 and is captioned "A Troop leaving 56th Div to join 4th Indian Div. Does this make sense?

 

The standard postal dress for Royal Artillery Regiments was Battery Number/ Regiment Number

Perhaps your father in law forgot this, do you have any letters or postcards with his address on them. I would like to know it if this changed from unit to unit
or location i.e. MEF BNAF or CMF.
My much mentioned Lt Bill Beadle was always addressed the same wherever he went. As were other letters that I have.
I would expect the Army Postal service to set a standard to avoid loss of post.

Look at ra1939-45 website on #13 above 34 LAA had three batteries numbers 65,92 and 246.
So that checks out.
I wouldn't argue with a caption on a photograph but he might have been posted elsewhere for a while.
You could find this out by sending for his Service Record via .Gov this should show all his postings and courses, time off sick etc.

56th (London) Infantry Division - Wikipedia
56 Div went to the Middle East in Nov 1942 so that matches his photo

With regard to a change from 56 Div to 4th Indian Div there are a number of Black Cat 56 Div experts on the forum so I will leave it for one of them to come forward. To confirm this.
We know from #13 that the Indian Div was in Tunisia in 1943 so it is probably correct.

I have a map of the Medjez area from an American Library somewhere, I will try to find the source but it will take a while. (A few phone calls, no promises).
Grid references for Italy / Europe can be converted on Echo Delta website mentioned by Chris C on #10 (once you get the hang of it.)

I'm sure that members would like to see some photos if you would like to share them.
"Pictures speak a thousand words".

I wonder if your father in law might have recalled this event in Tunisia May 1943.

Briefings took place on 5th May to reveal that 3IB was to attack The Bou in the evening with full Divisional Artillery support.
At dawn 4th Indian Div with 6th armour were to push down the road with support from the massed 696 guns.
At 1915 3IB had taken all its objectives and fought off a counter attack with the help of continuous Defensive Fire.
4th British Division on the right and 7th Armoured were reported to have reached Massicault with little opposition and the enemy were falling back.
At Dawn on May 7th no one knew where the enemy were except that they were out of range.
All batteries moved forward and derived some satisfaction to find in the tank laager olive grove several enemy tracked
and armoured vehicles obviously destroyed by artillery fire and consolation in the wine vat nearby.
The custodian having lived under ground with his family was only too glad to fill 4 gallon tins with vin rose.
He was very scared of “des Hindous” ( Ghurkas and Indians) and overwhelmed by the 8th Army supply services who had not seen or tasted wine for many months.

Excerpt from a letter posted home by Lt Bill Beadle July 1943

Looking through the War Diaries for the Regt you wouldn't perchance have any mention of A Lt or Capt Hewitson in the entries or list of Officers in the Filed found in the Appendices.

"Another event took place yesterday: my discovery of Roy.
On my way back from my liaison I noticed an AA RHQ moving into an olive grove and following my usual custom, stopped to ask if anyone had heard of a Mr Hewitson.
“Yes in that tent over there” came the answer. And there he was, just the same as ever, spruce and shining and hair well brushed.
He is at the moment an Ast. Adj. Having been demoted from Captain to Lieutenant. After an argument with his CO on the subject of spit and polish during battles."

(Lt Bill Beadle letter).

Dont ask dont get in this world!

 

Welcome aboard Steve.

A couple of points, based on my limited research compared to many here: by the time of El Alamein the RAF generally had air superiority, so the need for AA reduced and so AA units performed other roles - such a direct fire support. In recent North African research, using some war diaries, I have not found a single map reference of use.

We always recommend obtaining your target's service record; do you have them already? If so, posting them here usually produces a dividend from the expertise here.

 

Many thanks. I now have so much to work on, I will have to take a break. I will need to scan service records, although these are pretty skimpy. I will certainly put up some of his photos as I have scanned them all, including some official ones. I can't recall a Hewitson but so many names are mentioned in his letters etc., that I could have missed this.

I'll be back!

 

BMM(G) Officers Staff List 1946 found in BMMG war diaries on Ancestry. Page 371 of 2065.



Hope this helps

Gus

 

I'm look at 1941-45 but his is interesting and I hadn't realised all these documents were on Ancestry! Many thanks.