4.5-inch howitzers in 2nd Infantry Division

Discussion in '1940' started by Dirk, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Dirk

    Dirk Member

    Hello

    What Field Artillery Regiments of the 2nd Infantry Division were equiped with 4.5-inch howitzers in May 1940.

    10th Field Regiment, RA?
    16th Field Regiment, RA?
    99th (BuckinghamshireYeomanry) Field Regiment, RA?

    Did any of the above-mentioned field regiments leave any guns behind during the Battle of the River Dyle?

    I thank you for any help you can give.

    Dirk
     
  2. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Dirk, according to Mike (Trux)'s old BEF listings, both 10th and 16th Field Regiments were each equipped with 24 x 25pdrs.
    However, 99th Field Regt. attached 2 Div had 12 x 18pdr and 12 x 4.5" Howitzers.

    I have no sources that tell me if 99th Field Regt. were actually deployed on the Dijl. The HQ diaries mention 16th Field shelling in support of 1/8 Lancs Fusliiers but that's all that I can find. No mention of abandoning artillery.

    Are you on to something ? Have you found a 4.5" in a barn ?
     
  3. Dirk

    Dirk Member

    Thanks Rich,

    No, I haven't found a 4.5 " in a barn.

    I received a photo showing an abandoned Quad with its ammunition trailer and 4.5" howitzer. The photo was taken by a local somewhere along the line of the river Dijle in the summer of 1940. I'd like to insert the photo to identify the field regiment it belonged to, but I don't know how to insert the photo.

    On the back of the Quad are painted the following numbers and signs:
    - In the centre a number painted in white, its hard to make out whether it is the number 30, 36 or 38.
    - To the right of that number are the two keys of the 2nd Inf. Div.
    - To the far right is the number 20 painted within a dark circle.

    Do these numbers refer to the 99th Field Regiment?

    Dirk
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    This is the photograph that Dirk is referring to. A wonderful image. The tractor is a Guy Quad and the 2nd Infantry Division sign is clearly visible. The serial next to it must, I think be a tactical sign as it does not fit into the Field Regiment series.

    1.IMG_0003.jpg Detail_1.IMG_0001.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  5. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    This is a Morris PU carrying the Arm of Service Serial '5' which should indicate 99th Field Regt.

    99 Field Regt..jpg

    The '4' of 16th Field Regt.

    16 Field Regt.jpg

    ...and a Morris CDF with the '3' of 10th Field Regiment.

    Triumph 3SW & 2 Div CDF & Crossley (3).jpg

    I belive that the '20' symbol is a speed limit sign and it appears in that location on many tractors. The unclear figure is in a location often used for the Arm of service serial on Guy Quads but they were sometimes also placed on the far left. I wonder if it is actually 'B3' and relates to the troop and gun number within the battery ? I'll give Andrew and Andrew a heads up on this one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  6. Dirk

    Dirk Member

    Thanks Rich !
     
  7. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Hi Gents
    Is it possible that the '38' is in fact the tail end of the WD census number? It was often seen in this position. That means we cannot see the unit sign or a tactical sign. I agree with Rich that it must be 99th Field Regiment as the only one in 2nd Division with 4.5 inch howitzers.
    Andrew
     
  8. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Andrew, you could well be right. I'd forgotten that some of the later Guys had rather larger serial numbers. Positioning seemed to vary. Sometimes on the locker doors and sometimes ignoring them. I thought that I was looking at a pre-war census serial bottom right with the horizontal line under the 'H' but the only precedent that I can find actually has it on the left hand side. I really don't think that any two were marked the same. 18118-35.jpg
     
  9. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    99 Regiments diary
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dirk

    Dirk Member

    Thanks Andrew, Andy and Rich,

    So, we have no unit nor tactical sign to identify the field regiment, nor a war diary entry that states a gun and tractor were lost during 99 Field Regiment's withdrawal.

    The landscape in the photo strongly resembles the location mentioned in the war diary: the "Petit Bilande" area.

    To be completely sure I'll have to ask the widow of the man who made the photo. Perhaps she remembers.

    Dirk
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The diary does indicate that they were firing up until withdrawal between 03.00 and 04.00 early on 16th May. The gun looks as if it was hitched with limber prior to being abandoned and is beside the farm track. I can imagine that with a night-time disengagement, if a single vehicle had mechanical problems, it would have to be simply pushed to the side.

    The diary appears to be one of those which was written-up after the evacuation. Quite probably with all the subsequent excitement, an early incident such as a breakdown of a gun tractor may not have been recalled.

    The diary does state in relation to the action at St. Venant that an 18pdr from 393 Battery was brought into action in the a/tk rĂ´le and therefore by implication, 394 Battery were equipped with the 4.5" guns which is confirmed by this site :- http://nyx.meccahosting.com/~a0006da1/History/a_brief_history_of_the_r.htm

    It may be clutching at straws, but if the CRA 2 Div diary was returned intact then it may have recorded the early loss of the gun and tractor.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
    Drew5233 likes this.

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