Would anyone have access to the War Diary of 4 AGRA.? I am seeking any information in the period 6th June through to 14th June 1944 that may refer to the 65th Medium Regt. activity and whereabouts during this period. Regards, Middy
Yes! Thought you had the 65’s WD? 4AGRA Diary below,( 3 images). doesn't tell you much, they were a bit busy at the time. Rob
Thanks once again for your help Rob. Yes i do have the 65 's WD but i'm still on the hunt to try and find where 222 Battery would have been firing from in support of the 51st (H) Div. Re-reading my own enquires about ''KNEE FRANKIE'' on the 6th Sept this year GIBERVILLE suggested that viewing the AGRA war diary may give some location/casualty information for the Regts/Batteries under them. Apparently he did something similar and the information found was helpful to him. I think i've mentioned before, it was on the 13th June when my dad was wounded. I am planning to tour the various locations in Normandy of his Regt in the coming year and really would like to find the spot ( well at least the field/ hillside or wherever!!) where his life was changed forever. I know from previous comments received that finding such is not easy as at the time they did not want to be found but i want to exhaust all avenues if i'm able. Cheers, John
What you really need is a location statement with co-ords, which is a bit hard to find this early in Normandy, one of the other regts of 4AGRA might have one in their diary that gives all the Regts locations, you never know. I will look through the 51st Hvy & 53 Med dairies which I have to see if they have one. Rob
Rob, Maybe i'm asking for too much from you but any chance if you are searching 53rd MED (and possibly 79th Med) that you could copy me from 3rd June to say 10th June War Diaries as they, along with the 65th arrived on D Day in advance of the other 4AGRA Regiments. It may be the 3 Regiments travelled together to Normandy and would add to my knowledge of the sailings,landings and initial action. If too much i would understand Regards, John
John, here is the D-Day page from the 53rd Med History book, they didn't land until the 7th, there is no June Diary for 51st Hvy Regt (starts July)?. Should have the 79th Med Diary next week at some point. Rob
Thanks a lot Rob. Will read the 53rd page and look forward to the 79th Diary perhaps adding a little more. Cheers, John
Rob, Could i just add a couple of supplementary questions having read the book extract. Did the 53rds war diary throw up any more info than in the book? The bottom of p69 refers to a ''slight sidestep from Colleville to Hermanville half.....'' . As i am thinking that 65M may have been alongside them and the 13th June is a key date could i ask if it's possible to copy p70 for me to see what then happens? On p68 it refers to the LST'S rendezvous in the Channel....does this mean they are likely to have transferred men and equipment onto ships or would the LST's have gone all the way? Again 65M may have been alongside them. I am trying also to locate the names of any ships they may have used. The book looks very interesting. Do you have the title and author and do you know if it's on sale? Thanks again in anticipation. Cheers, John
65 Med Regt were deployed to Colville. I can't find any grid references. A lot of guns were on the reverse slope or tucked into the hollow. There was a real estate management problem in the confined Normandy beachhead. My hunch is that everything gunner had to be packed into the Artillery Reserved Areas that had been assigned before the invasion. A unit could not deploy where it liked, as somr other unit might have been allocated the real estate. Even if the units did not deploy to their scheduled gun area, they would have been expected to deploy to one of them
John I will do page 70/71 on the next post. The book is: The History of 353 (London) Medium Regt RA (TA) 1861-1961, they dropped the first 3 from their number in 1938. I found I do not have the diary only the book. There is a good web-site also: http://53rdmediumregtra.webs.com/.r LST's & Troop ships were loaded at the docks in England, proceeded to form a convoy off the English Coast, then across to anchor off the Normandy coast, where the Guns, Transport & Equipment were loaded on to Rhino's (massive motorised flat top barges) that then proceed to land on the beachhead. The troops went over the side using nets of the troopship or LST into the small assault landing craft to head to shore & join up with their transport etc.. Some "Rhino's" were sailed or towed across but were very unreliable & unstable.
Sheldrake, many thanks for your information. I wonder if you can help me out with some of the content. Neptune i will google and see what it was. On the diagram: ALG ? H120.M240 etc ? D+1, +2 etc ? = D-Day +1 ie 7th June? The cross with 70 and 1c? A B C D ETC sectors? Looks like ''Tralag'' ....Tracing? Areas ''Zoras''....Area Zones ? I have 65M's WD's and noticed that quite often they gave a location under PLACE eg Colville ( spelt wrong by the diarist). these sometimes turned out to be the RHQ and the Batteries were elsewhere. Could this be the case here? I wondered if it would be worthwhile my checking some of the other Regiments on the chart to see if they were giving Collville as their location on the 13th June.? Thanks again, John
Many thanks again Rob. I suppose finding out if the 65th were on LST's or Troopships would be difficult as both carried troops.. The author of the book does not mention any troopship but that doesn't mean they didn't transfer at the rendezvous point in the Channel. However, i am building up a picture with you and Sheldrakes info of what was possibly taking place up to the point where my dad ceased to be a part of the action. Looking forward to your next post. Cheers John
Op Neptune = Navel codeword for D Day Operation ALG = Advanced Landing Ground. Crab air stuff Nothing to do with 65 Medium Regiment H (M?) + x where x = 120/ 240 etc. Planned time to occupy ARA as a time after H Hour. (7.30 BDST on Sword beach) They did not meet this timescale because of the time to get off the beach. D+1 D+2 etc you got it. Its D Day + whatever. Cross with 10 and 1c? These are the orientation marks on the trace to fix the positions on a 1:50,000 GSG map. Its 10, Eastings 70(Northings). You need at least two to position the trace. The second looks like 98, 79. Letters and lines A-E. These are the centres of arc for the guns deployed in each ARA. That is the direction in which the guns point when they are deployed. This helps the GPO who needs to minimise local crests. Its a Trace showing Zones of fire. Re Coleville sur mer - It is easy to misspell (How many Ls?) There is no doubt about the location. RHQ should be reasonably close to the batteries. Comms were often line. There is a conflict between places providing good comms - essential for RHQ; and hiding in low ground. Don't forget that the CO 65 Med would not need to be near the guns.
Thanks very much again Sheldrake for the help . One question i meant to ask before is when you referred to( ''A lot of guns were on the reverse slope or tucked into the hollow'' is this a specific area in/near Collville (if so where?) or is it general terminology for Gun placements. Cheers, John
John I now have & have looked over the diary of 79th (SH) Medium Regt for June 44, these diaries are some of the worst I've ever seen as regards content. They arrived on 7th/8th June & established at Banville going into action straight away. At 3pm on the 8th they moved forward to Thaon where they stayed until approx the 20th, they were in action for the 3rd Canadian Div for the whole time. Sorry this is no help for you! Best Rob
