41 marked Bren carrier restoration

Discussion in 'Recce' started by Ben H, Sep 11, 2010.

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  1. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Came across this one
    Rob

    5th Cdn Amd Div
    [​IMG] 1 Field Squadron, Royal Cdn Engineers

    Summarising the options so far:

    41 on green over blue: Recce Regt in Inf Div
    41 on blue: Field Sqn RE in Armd Div
    41 on black: Divisional Battle School and Training Centre (less likely)

    Might have something somewhere on postwar numbers - has that possibility been ruled out yet?

    Edit: 41 on blue remained as an Armoured Div's Field Engineer Regiment (all Field Sqns, they weren't numbered individually) until ~1959. By 1952 at the latest, the Div Regt RAC replaced the Recce Regt in an Inf Div, retaining 41 as its code but on a red/yellow diagonal field.
     
  2. Ben H

    Ben H Junior Member

    I haven't ruled anything in or out.......about the only thing i can be sure of is that it's a 41 and where on the hull it's painted.
    I know very, very little about the system used by the army to identify vehicles so i'm relying on help from the forum.

    Thanks

    Ben
     
  3. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Ben,

    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    The 41 indicates that it is a Reconnaissance Corps Carrier.

    There were two forms of marking.
    The standard tactical marking was white numbers on a square halved green over blue.

    A variation was that of the 43rd (Wessex) Recce. which was black numbers over a square divided diagonally, yellow over green.

    I wish you well with the restoration work and please post photographs of your progress.


    Regards
    Tom

    Ben Here is a copy of a page from an Osprey publication on the Recce.

    You can see the two tactical number as describe in my previous post quoted above.

    Regards
    Tom
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Ben H

    Ben H Junior Member

    I think this could start to make sense.

    I didn't understand what could perhaps be a diagnol line from top right towards bottom left on my original photo but perhaps Tom's post above shows that it was the yellow/green square with the black 41 this might explain the black painted 41 under the white 41. would it have been possible that the blue/green 41 was painted over the yellow/green version? it would perhaps also explain the previous owner saying about the "cat"
    What is the relationship between the two versions?

    Thanks

    Ben
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I know very, very little about the system used by the army to identify vehicles
    You are not alone Ben, and I've been trying to understand it for years, but then I believe it was supposed to be confusing from the start... in this, they were successful.
    The best of luck with your restoration, got any more pictures?

    Cheers,
    ~Adam.
     
  6. singeager

    singeager Senior Member

    I would recomend you have a look at this site, three books have been published on Carriers by Restorer and vehicle owner Nigel Watson and may be of interest. Its taken him years of reaserch to put this lot together.......

    Universal Bren Carrier Book

    (I know Nigel but not making any gain by giving this recomendation)

    Singe
     
  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I second that recommendation, some of the Best books on any British armour yet published.
    If you haven't got them Ben, I'd have thought essential reference for an owner.
     
  8. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Ben,

    The Diagonal Yellow over green with black letters was the 43rd (Wessex) Recce.

    All Recce units were integrated into the RAC from 1st January 1944, when the units lost their Khaki beret for the Black type.

    Like all things the orders were not all complied with straight away and Recce units were wearing both types for several months.

    I believe that this would also have been a factor in the unit markings and that not all were changed straight away.

    This could account for the various markings that you have uncovered.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  9. 17thDYRCH

    17thDYRCH Senior Member

    Ben,
    Adding to Idler's comments.
    The white 41 on halved green over blue was on:

    1st Canadian Infantry Division
    4th Recce Regiment ( 4th Princess Louise Dragoon Guards )
    2nd Canadian Infantry Division
    8th Recce Regiment ( 14th Canadian Hussars )
    3rd Canadian Infantry Division ( 17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars )

    The white 41 on blue square was Corps of Royal Canadian Engineers. 8th Field Squadron was in the 4th Canadian Armoured Division. 1st Field Squadron was in the 5th Canadian Armoured Division.

    Note, both armoured divisions had recce regiments. The marking was halved green over blue with white 45.

    Cheers from Canada
     
  10. Ben H

    Ben H Junior Member

    Thanks for the continued help. I bought Nigels books a couple of weeks ago, they are the carrier Bible. I know he's hard at work on volume 3.

    Ben
     
  11. Richard Lewis

    Richard Lewis Member

    From what I understand:
    HQ Sqn - Diamond
    A Sqn - Triangle
    B Sqn - Square
    C Sqn - Circle

    But what about colours? I believed that Regiments under Divisional command had white tac signs, but I’ve seen photos of original and restored Recce vehicles with various colours (or dark in the case of b&w photos!).
    Can anyone explain? I’d be interested and no doubt so will Ben, when he gets to that stage.

    Regards,

    Richard
     
  12. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Richard (Lewis)
    A (very) belated thanks for reminding me of these signs.

    Ron
    (knowing full well that Owen will probably remind me that Richard last posted many moons ago :-P)
     
    Owen likes this.
  13. Richard Lewis

    Richard Lewis Member

    Ron,

    I’m glad to see someone is rummaging around the old threads and bringing them back to life. Only eight years ago I posted that – how time flies! I wonder if Ben has finished the restoration of his carrier.

    Richard
     
  14. Trackfrower

    Trackfrower Member

    I don't know where this "diagonal" arm of service marking came from, but I have NEVER seen a photo.
    Not convinced
     

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