4342520 Clifford Routledge Royal Artillery and 4th Devonshire Regiment

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Space.King, Aug 23, 2022.

  1. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    I am looking into the above soldier for a friend.

    On the death certificate of his first wife in August 1944 he is listed as 4342520 Gunner Royal Artillery and on the marriage certificate with his second wife in July 1945 he has the same service number but in 4th Devonshire Regiment, the maariage being registered in Aldershot.

    Apart from obtaining his service record is there anywhere else I should be looking for insights into his service?

    Many thanks for reading.

    David
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Hello David welcome to the forum

    Apply for his service records as you suggested once you have them you can then get the relevant war diaries for the regiments he served in.
    Perhaps other forum members could add more.
    The army number: 4342520 indicates that the soldier's original unit or date joined was:East Yorkshire Regiment
     
    Tony56 likes this.
  3. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    Thank you.

    His address was Grimsby so East Yorkshire might make sense.
     
  4. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    David,

    It is important to note that in WW2 the British Army had acute manpower shortages, with transfers into and out of the Royal Artillery. In a moment I will send some tips via PM.

    Wiki has some information that indicates the 4th Devonshire did not see active service for much of the war: 164th (North Lancashire) Brigade - Wikipedia and Exeter and South Devon Volunteers - Wikipedia

    There are a few threads here on the 4th Devons: Devonshire Regiment ; 5626098 John Tidd 4th Devons & Royal Engineers and photo help - 4th Devonshire Regiment
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
  5. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Unfortunately not. You have at least 3 potential regiments, East Yorkshire, Royal Artillery and Devonshire, before you can trace his service you will need to know the dates and other details that are only available from his official service records. One of the few WW2 online records are casualty lists, that number is not mentioned.
     
  6. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    Thank you Tony for looking at the Casualty lists.

    We will settle back and wait for the record (requested today) which hopefully will not be one of those already transferred to TNA as rumour has it they are not releasing them until the man would have been 116!
     
  7. reddevon

    reddevon Member

    The 4th Devons were recruited from East Devon and Exeter. 1939 they were in the 45 Infantry Division. 1940 the battalion moved to Gibraltar as part of the garrison until 1943 when they returned to the UK. Unfortunately an awful lot of members were transferred to other units, mainly other battalions of the Devonshire Regiment ( ie the 1st who were out in the far east, the 2nd who were being reorganised for the forthcoming operations in Normandy, the 5th who had been converted to the 86th Regiment of Artillery, they also went to Normandy and the 12th Airborne, again who were being reorganised for the Normandy operations).
    In your original post you said his service number stated he was in the 4th Devons, is it possible that it could have been the 5th Devons? which would tie in with the R.A. connection.
     
  8. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    Thank you for your reply.

    We now have Clifford's army records and he first attested on 31 October 1932 as a Private in the East Yorkshire Regiment 4342520 but was discharged on 8th March 1933 as "not being likely to become efficient".

    His wartime service was 3rd January 1940 to 16th January 1946. Serving initially in Royal Regiment of Artillery transferring to the 4th Bn Devonshire Regiment on 8th March 1945. Our reading of the records suggests to us he served in various home postings (Coastal and Anti Aircraft) although family lore has it he did venture overseas at one point to somewhere "hot" but we have been unable to corroborate that from the records.

    Most of the records are on A3 sized paper which makes them difficult to scan using an A4 scanner however the attached is a summary which could be easily scanned.

    He went on to re-enlist in 1950 into the Wessex Regiment but was quickly discharged as medically unfit.

    Routledge CJ Service Record scan 1.png Routledge CJ Service Record scan 2.png
     
  9. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    If you have a mob with camera or dig camera takes photos of them and then post on the thread
     
  10. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    Thanks for the tip.

    Is anyone able to define his journey through units from the images above please?
     
  11. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Experienced members will be reluctant to offer an opinion based solely on the detail recorded on the B102 Index Card as experience on the forum confirms that they often miss out detail recorded on the other forms provided by MOD - notably B103.

    It’s often better for members to have sight of all the papers provided by MOD so an informed assessment/opinion can be made.

    Steve
     
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  12. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    Thanks all

    I have photographed as best I can some of the relevant documents relating to his 1932 and 1940 attestations - mainly the latter. Included is one of what appears to be NoK addresses which may help with his geographical location at the time.

    All help gratefully received

    David
    DSC_1032.JPG DSC_1042.JPG DSC_1034.JPG DSC_1037.JPG DSC_1038.JPG
     
    CL1 likes this.
  13. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    Can anyone help with this man's units based on the above please?
     
  14. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    Disappointed no response so far.
    Having a stab at it myself comes up with:

    From the photos of service record:

    HQ Fixed Defences C D + AA - is that Coastal Division and Anti Aircraft? Is it a training posting?

    370 HY BTY - Heavy Battery? - any ideas as to location / anti aircraft?

    508 CST Regt RA - a coastal defence battery? Location?

    146 HAA Regt RA - heavy anti-aircraft battery? Location?

    21 Army Grp - no specific unit at this stage 1944 - ?

    Other possible units from the earlier posted scans:

    562 C Regt

    541 C R

    533 C R

    512 C R

    508 C R

    128 HAA Regt

    7 HAA Regt

    Were any of these units posted overseas somewhere "warm"? (Family story)

    Can anyone please expand on any of these units and / or point me towards any online resources that wll assist our understanding of this man's ww2 service?

    Thanks for reading.
     
  15. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Have you got his B103 'Service and casualty form'? That would normally show more detail including embarkation and/or disembarkation, units, locations.
    There should also be a page giving details of any campaign medals that would help identify service.

    In order to get as much detail on actions you will need war diaries or other histories, for example he was with the 4 Devonshires and their diary is here:
    4 Devonshire Regiment | The National Archives
    Also
    Search results: 508 regiment | The National Archives
    ANTI-AIRCRAFT COMMAND: HEAVY ANTI-AIRCRAFT BATTERIES: 370 Heavy Anti-Aircraft Battery... | The National Archives
    Search results: 146 heavy anti diary | The National Archives
    146th Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery - Wikipedia
    TNA diaries are not available online but there are folks around here who will visit and copy at very reasonable costs for you if you can't get there. Worth searching around to see if anyone has put the odd page or two online.
    First of all make a timeline of dates and units so that you can aim for the correct periods. No easy way especially when quite a few units are involved.
     
  16. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    Thank you. I will see if I can identify that form.
     
  17. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    Sadly we don't have B103, best is the 200 as photographed above.
     
  18. reddevon

    reddevon Member

    In part ll of his service record it states that he was in the 4th Devons, this could be a mistake, as it also states he was in the 86th RA which were originally the 5th Devons. the 86th RA consisted of 128, 129, 130 and 340 batteries. and served in the ETO. The 86th were disbanded in 1946 on the 1st of March in Aachen.
     
  19. Space.King

    Space.King Member

    Thank you for the information
     

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