4th (Durham) Survey Regiment, RA

Hello Anthony further to my short reply last night ...

The full entry reads 4610721 Sgt/Sig 40 Longhill Road, Sheapridge, Huddersfield. Joined 12.9.42.

The rank given is the last knonwn. Address is the one for the OCA to use in 1946. There are no later dates in our copy which is the one used by my father in law Clarrie Hird who was the first Secretary of the OCA until the 1960's. His father also Clarrie Hird appears as one of the organisers of the Welcome Home Banquet.

His date of joining is shortly after the loss of No2 Battery in the fall of Tobruk in 20 June 1942. No1 Battery was rushed back to Egypt from Syria a few days later. No2 battery was rapidly rebuilt drawing in trained men from various sources. Where was your grandfather at the time?

At this time the Regiment was deployed along the length of the defensive line south from El Almein surveying in the position of our own artillery and establishing the Sound Ranging and FLash Spotting bases which then located the positions of Hostile Batteries. This work was a major contribution to the accuracy of barrage at the start of the El Alamein offensive in October.


SIgnallers were very important as there were many miles of cables linking Observation Posts, SR microphones and FS observers back to 'computers' (men not machines) who had to make rapid calculations to then pass on coordinates of HB's to the CBO.

The work is expliained in the regimental history "'Z Location' available online at http://www.duffy-eu.com/94loc/z_location.pdf

I'll check in Max's book on the survey regiments in WWII for 9th Survey and post later.

Do his discharge papers give any idea of his date of enlistment and first regiment?

Robin

 

Anthony
Re 9th Survey .. This was established in early 1941 and was on home defence duties until late 1943. They prepared for the Normandy landings in June 1944 and were in the thick of it from then on. Looks like they were in close proximity to the 4th for the next 9 months. I would suspect that he was transferred to the 9th only after VE Day as there is nothing in the 'Remarks' column of the Nominal Roll for the 4th.


As others on the Forum will confirm your next step is to apply for his full service record. This will show when and where he joined up and what his postings were


R

 

Thanks so much for responding, and with so much information!

In answer to your questions, as best as I can ascertain, here are his postings from his discharge certificate:

Royal Artillery (TA): 15/2/38 - 14/3/46 (Unfortunately I can't find anything conclusive about which unit he enlisted in)
B.E.F: 1/4/40 - 29/5/40
M.E.: 14/7/42 - 28/8/43
B.N.A.F.: 29/8/43 - 8/12/43
N.W.E.: 9/6/44 - 10/12/45

Release Leave Certificate dated 12/12/45 - Sarstedt, Germany. Stamped 9th Survey Regiment.
Discharge dated 29/5/47.

Thank you again for your informative replies, this will help a great deal in our further research.

Anthony.

 

Looks like he had an interesting war ... his Service Record will help sort out the details
Robin

 

Looking at those o/s service dates and assuming survey throughout the war then a few deductions can be made.

France Apr 1940 would suggest 3 Svy Regt, although a draft into 1 or 2 Svy Regts is possible.

ME Jul 42 does not fit with any regt move, 4 Svy arrived 18 months earlier, and 3 Svy about a year later. 4 Svy had significant loses in late 1941/early 1942 so a reinforcement draft seems possible. This would imply he was a specialist on the survey side because drivers, etc, could be replaced from the normal RA reinforcements but he could perhaps have been a signaller.

Second half of 1943 in N Africa implies a regt that did not go to Sicily and Italy. That seems to eliminate 3, 4, 5 and 8 Svy Regts who all went north in 1943. Perhaps he was recovering from wounds/injury/sickness at this time or being detached for some reason.

NWE 9 Jun means an early arriving regt, probably not 7 or 10 Svy Regts, that leaves 4 or 9 who both landed leading elements on DDay.

 

Yes the 4th Durham were rebuilding

 

Hi, I'm a new member. I was looking up Oliver Stockton. I have found his name mentioned in a letter written from my mums cousin Trooper Raymond Edwards who was killed in Elst during Operation Market a Garden 23 Sept 1944. In a letter written to his sister he mentions his friend Oliver Stovkton being nearby and he hopes to be able to see him. I notice from his listing here he lived in Stretford. Raymond went to Streford Grammar and is on a war memorial there.

 

Hi my grandfather Robert ord bolstridge Smith served with the 4th survey royal artillery , he was reported missing from 20th June 1942 but located on 8th July 1942 in Tobruk. My grandfather spoke very little of the war but did speak of the loyalty and friendship of the fellow soldiers he fought alongside! I am looking if anyone has any information of this missing report or any information in general regarding my grandfather during his WWII campaign. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

Replied on a separate new post

 

We'll look at the Nominal Roll and get back to you

 

He is listed in the Old Comrades Nominal Roll as 898100 final rank RQMS with a Gateshead address. Clarrie was BQMS and Sec of the OCA from inception to shortly before his death in 1977; hewould have known him well especially as they were both from Gateshead.

Your grandpa is listed in Magnelli Climpson's book as RQMS from 1942 but is not indexed in main text. He should appear in the War Diaries ... we have many of them obtained by Drew.

 

Does anyone recognise any of the men in this photo? Pleas let us know.

In late 1939 the regiment fielded a rugby team in several games played in Gateshead and Sunderland. The fixtures and results are published in the Sunderland Echo and other newspapers.

The attached photograph is from an album perpared by my father in law Clarence Hird. This of the 4th Durham Survey Regiment rugby team which played at Sunderland. A phone call from Maurice Howard confirmed this and he said it was probably in October 1939.

Clarrie HIRD is seated in broad hoops on the right. He played for the North Durham Rugby Club and joined up in April 1939 with Maurice Howard and Keith Burns from the same club.

We believe that Maurice is on the grass in the whole colour (2nd left).

 

I'm interested in the service of the Regiment in Normandy , does anyone have any information on the 5 members of the Regiment KIA during the Normandy Battle ?

 

Will try to help. Do you have any names?

 

Gunner John Niven Todd buried Tilly Sur Seulles 23/7/44
Gnr Michael Picker buried Ryes 27/6/44
L/Bdr Leslie Garbutt bureid Bayeux 21/6/44
Lt Edgar Bailey buried Guitry Churchyard 27/8/44
Gnr Thomas Theophilus Atkinson buried in Tilly sur Seulles 28/6/44

Many thanks

Paul

 

Do you have their service numbers? I wil check what information is in the Nominal Roll for the Old Comrades Association which lists all tose killed in the war.
Father in law Clarrie Hird was BQMS of 48 Bty for the Normandy Campaign. Unforunately his 1944 diaries contain no significant information but he did comment about their time in and out of Tilly.
Regards

Robin

 

Thanks Robin ,here are the numbers ,

Gunner John Niven Todd 998771
Gnr Michael Picker 1119787
L/Bdr Leslie Garbutt 913291
Lt Edgar Bailey 269322
Gnr Thomas Theophilus Atkinson 979440

Would also be interested in any info about the fighting around Tilly,

regards

Paul

 

Hello Paul
The OCA Nominal Roll from May 1946 has a list of the regiment's casuatlies.
All five are listed with the same service numbers as casualties in N/WE (or N.W.E.) but the only additional information is under the headings 'Casualty' and 'Date" . This states the following
Gnr Atkinson T T - D.O.W. - 28.6.44
Lt Bailey E - Killed - 27.8.44
L/Bdr Garbutt L - D.O.W. - 21.6.44
Gnr Picker M - D.O.W. - 27.6.44
Gnr Todd J. A. (sic) - K.I.A.- 27.7.44

Three further men died in October 1944.

There is some information about these men on the CWG site and in a Royal Artillery thread on this forum


Hope this helps

Regards

Robin

 

Thanks again Robin ,the CWCG has 78 KIA isted from the Regiment throughout the war .

 

OCA list has 79 -
I've tried to get the list on CWGC website but no luck. What search terms did you use?