4th Indian Infantry Divisional Engineers

Discussion in 'British Indian Army' started by DavidW, Aug 4, 2013.

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  1. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Does anyone know what specialist equipment and heavy weapons would have been on allocation to the Bengal and Madras Sappers & Miners during their stint in North Africa?
     
  2. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    David

    Much the same as other engineering units I would imagine - the only thing special about the Bengal and Madras Sappers and Miners was the big engineering school there which trained most Indian and many British Engineers - fourth IndianDiv was only one of four in that area- as far as I know - perhaps there is something different about them..as you are probably aware..4th Indian were in the running through the desert until near Beda Fomm - then called down to Somaliland - then back up to Syria to deal with the French - again straight to Wadi Akirit in Tunisia - then into Italy at second and third Cassino - into the Gothic Line at Croce / Gemmano and finished up in Greece - a very fine division as good as any and better than some

    Cheers
     
  3. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thanks Tom.
    In the light of your comments perhaps I should be asking for a Middle East War Establishment for an Engineer Company?
     
  4. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    I think that you need to look at the Indian Engineers, or Indian Sappers and Miners as they were called early in the war, in a different light. Most field engineering companies were formed from one of the three Corps: King George V's Bengal Sappers and Miners, Queen Victoria's Own Madras Sappers and Miners, and the Royal Bombay Sappers and Miners. The 4th Indian Divisional Engineers are listed below during the North African period. Notice that there were companies from each of the three Corps. The 4th Divisional Engineers were similar to other Commonwealth division's engineers and consisted of three field companies and a field park company. Their equipment was the same as for a British, Australian or New Zealand infantry division.


    4th (Bengal) Field Company, IE 10/39 - 31/8/45
    12th (Madras) Field Company, IE 10/39 - 31/8/45
    18th (Bombay) Field Company, IE 8/39 - 6/42
    11th (Madras) Field Park Company, IE 9/39 - 31/8/45
    21st (Bombay) Field Company, IE 9/42 - 31/8/45
     
  5. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thank you David.

    One thing has confused me however; you state that " I think that you need to look at the Indian Engineers, or Indian Sappers and Miners as they were called early in the war, in a different light." And yet then you say " Their equipment was the same as for a British, Australian or New Zealand infantry division." Please could you clarify, or am I just being stupid?

    Best wishes, David.
     
  6. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    At the start of the war in 1939, they were called the Indian Sappers and Miners, and, depending of which Corps formed the Company, Bengal Sappers and Miners, Madras Sappers and Miners, or Bombay Sappers and Miners. As the war developed, I think around 1940, the term Indian Engineers replaced the term Indian Sappers and Miners. This became the norm since the Sappers and Miners, as was the case with the rest of the Indian Army, underwent great growth. This meant that the three original Corps could no longer produce all companies, particularly specialty companies such as Inland Water Transport, Survey and such. So instead of calling the unit the 4th Field Company, Bengal Sappers and Miners, it became known as the 4th (Bengal) Field Company, Indian Engineers.

    I have attached a Word Document, which is a few pages from the first volume on the Indian Army from my series of books. It should explain the Indian Engineers.
     

    Attached Files:

    Aixman and ClankyPencil like this.
  7. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    David.

    I am indebted to you yet again. Thank you very much.
     
  8. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Was there a 35th Bengal Sappers and Miners Company that also served with the 4th Division in North Africa?

    I have a pencilled note of them, but no source.
     
  9. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    35th Field Troop, King George V’s Bengal Sappers and Miners
    Station
    Roorkee
    Class Composition
    Musalman
    Title Changes
    35th Field Squadron - 1941

    The field squadron served under command 3rd Indian Motor Brigade from its formation in August 1940 until April 1941, when the brigade was in a major action at Mechile, Libya. It was located at Sialkot on 23 December 1940 and left with the brigade for Egypt on 26 January 1941. It arrived on 6 February 1941 and went to the front at once. It was captured at Mechili shortly after.
     
  10. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    Some Engineer War Establishments can be found at the following link

    http://www.warestablishments.net/
     
  11. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thanks Clanky.

    Thanks David.
     

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