582 Squadron - Harold Bruce Wright Heney DSO

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by Reebmit, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    He is not only on the Nominal Roll, but also in the NAA Archive under his service number 417125. The reason you cannot find him is that he is Gilbert Derek, not Gilbert Desmond. The NAA also wrongly has him as an "LAC" on board 582sqdn Lancaster PB182 lost near Recklinghausen, Germany, on 11th Sept 44, but PB182 was not lost on this date.

    I discarded him on the nominal roll as he is listed as Flight Lieutenant, 253sq, DFC of which none have been mentioned, hence the question.

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  2. AlanW

    AlanW Senior Member

    Geoff,
    Unfortunatley, the NAA and Nominal Roll, both contain errors, and i have contacted them on many occasions to let them know that they have recorded the wrong unit details etc. Attached is postings page from 625 ORB.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Okay Alan,

    That gives me the number and that he was a Flight Sergeant and initials of G.D.

    What are the errors by Nominal? Seems nearly everything.

    What are the errors by the NAA?

    I will advise them if this is so as it puts my records out.

    How the hell they can get Derek from Desmond, 243 from 625/156/582 and a Flight Lieutenant from a Pilot Officer and a DFC from thin air?

    Has to be a transfer error in total from another record.

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  4. AlanW

    AlanW Senior Member

    Nominal Roll has him as with 243sqdn, this is doubtful, as 243 was a fighter sqdn equipped with Spitfires. NAA has him not only as a casualty on board 582sqdn Lancaster PB182, lost over Germany 11th Sept 44, but also with the rank of LAC!!! As i stated in my previous post, PB182 was not lost on that date, and was still with 582sqdn when it was involved in a crash-landing on 20th Jan 45.
    As for the second name, it might sound silly but could the relative who posted the info earlier, got the name wrong, and not the NAA or Nominal Roll.
     
  5. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Hi Alan,

    Too many pieces wrong here so we will wait until the original poster returns and check the name to start with.
     
  6. Reebmit

    Reebmit Junior Member

    Hello,

    I just found your message about your grandfather Harold Wright Bruce Heney, who died on a mission near the site of Rennes.
    I visited the crash site and a witness tells us that the cockpit of the Lancaster is in the River.
    I must go to Rennes to take pictures of graves of airmen from the RAF, including that of your grandfather.
    I pay tribute to your father and would like to have his biography, photos for placement on a page, we are working for the duty to remember for many years.

    http://www.absa39-45.com/28%20mai%20194 ... -ND814.htm

    Regards,
    Dan


    http://www.absa39-45.com/
    Dan you are a Star, many thanks for this, greatly appreciated. On the Roll of Honour site there is a picture of their plane and the crew stood next to it. It has a copyright on the photo bt if you get in touch with the site they may send you a copy or put you in touch with the copyright owner??
    I have attached a picture of my Grandfather which is a perfect shot of him. I will look out some more info. Thanks again, Tim

    Just got the link to the page with picture: harold wright heney - Ask.com Search
     

    Attached Files:

  7. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Too many pieces wrong here so we will wait until the original poster returns and check the name to start with.


    The casualty file for SMITH, Gilbert Derick (Leading Aircraftman) 417125 RAAF has been digitised and it contains only three folios (not a great return on the cost of getting it digitised but for some reason this has been bugging me).

    The file was created following his injuries in the crash of a Tiger Moth in 1942 when he was an LAC undergoing flight training, two of the folios concern the Tiger Moth incident. The other folio is a drop copy message detailing that his aircraft was hit by flack on a mission to Recklinghausen injuring one of the Aussie crewmen, the remainder (including Smith) were uninjured.

    The injured crewman was PATON, Graeme Ogilvy (Pilot Officer) 422682 RAAF (survived war – discharged 8 Apr 1946 as a Flying Officer).

    As none of the other Aussies on board had pre-existing casualty files I presume that the message mentioning them being on board Lancaster PB182 would have just gone on to their pers files.

    As the NAA file header for Smith in confusing I am going to suggest that they amend the description or add a note to reflect the two separate incidents.


    None of this explains the nominal roll info regarding his unit etc – maybe it would have been a better investment if I had requested that the pers file for Smith had been loaded instead……..

    (DFC details attached)


    **********************************************************

    PATON, Graeme Ogilvy (Pilot Officer) 422682 RAAF (survived war – discharged 8 Apr 1946 as a Flying Officer from 1312 Flight) - DFC details attached

    File type - Casualty - Repatriation; Aircraft - Lancaster III PB 182

    Place - RAF Hospital, Henlow, United Kingdom / Date - 11 September 1944

    Other crew:

    PRICE, Beverley Robert (Warrant Officer) 410723 RAAF (discharged as a Flying Officer 12 Aug 1946 – last unit 243SQN) – NAA has pers file only

    JORGENSON, Henry Douglas (Warrant Officer) 426608 RAAF (discharged 25 Mar 1946 – last unit 12OTU) – NAA has pers file only

    DOSWELL (Sergeant) 1450461 RAF (not found on CWGC)

    BELL (Flight Sergeant) 1098446 RAF (not found on CWGC)

    STAWN (Sergeant) R/206022 RCAF (not found on CWGC)
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Alexking109

    Alexking109 Aircrewremembrancesociety

    Hi Andy, many thanks for the info, I don't have anything more at the moment but am trying hard to research more. Are there any good places to try?

    Have you contacted ..
    Www.aircrewremembrancesociety.co.uk
    They may beable to help you hope this helps
     
  9. jezabell

    jezabell New Member

    Hi. Im new to this site after finding it while looking for info on harold bruce wright heney. The reason being there is a photo on the 582 roll of honour site of the crew of harold
    http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Bedfordshire/LittleStaughtonBookofRemembrance.html
    There is something not right about the photo and the crew. For one the man third from right is my uncle frank holmes, yes he flew with 582 but was killed on may 3/4 1944 on a raid to mondidier, secondly the aircraft in the picture is a sterling not a lancaster. 582 didnt use sterlings in 1944.
    Im not saying harold or cudlipp are not on the photo, im just saying its not the full crew listed on the site.
    I have done a lot of research on my uncle frank and i have now made contact and in touch with his crewmates families from his time at 582 sqd. He also served in 103 sqd with don charlwood and geoff maddern and 576 with the same crew that went to 582 on april 1st
    I am extremely interested to find out if frank flew with harold or any of the others listed on the picture.
    Frank went to finningley htu between his time at 103 and 576 . Im wondering if the picture was taken there.
    If anyone could help me in finding out whos who on the picture and who he flew with that would be fantastic. Hope im not too late in joining this topic. Thank you for the site and a chance to find out more about my uncle
     
  10. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Welcome, jezabell (but I'm sure you're really quite nice! :) )
    Thanks on behalf of all posting on this thread for your observations regarding the Little Staughton Book of Remembrance.
    The photo of the crew under the Stirling (which was phased out of Main Force Bomber Command use by the end of 1943 and obviously can't be later than very early May 1944 when your uncle Frank Holmes was lost) is credited to Maureen Rawlings, presumably related to Leonard Cudlipp.

    It might be that someone could confirm if it was taken at Little Staughton or as you suggest Finningley, there seem to be some buildings in the background by the tyre.

    Let's see what happens.
     
  11. dawallace

    dawallace Junior Member

    The 582 Squadron ORB shows Holmes flew only with the O'Neill Crew while at 582. Both the O'Neill crew and Heney's crew were posted in on April 1 but it doesn't say where from. You would have to look through the records of Holmes's previous squadrons to see if they flew together.
     
  12. AlanW

    AlanW Senior Member

    Jezabell,
    Nice bit of spotting on your behalf. If, as David says, your uncle only flew with the crew once while with 582, it's most likely, as you thought, that the photo with the Stirling was taken at an HCU. I also have to smile when i see that the information "allegedly" comes from a database by a certain Mr Davis.
    If you need any info from the 582/576 or 103 record books, let me know.
    Actually, if you are familiar with downloading zip files, and would like copies of each of the ORB's concerned, message me with your email address and i'll get back to you
     
  13. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    :yeah:
     
  14. jezabell

    jezabell New Member

    Hi all. Frank did 30 sorties with don charlwood and geoff maddern at 103, then he went on to gunnery training, we think finningley but could be lindholme, from there to 576 where he joined 576 and oneills crew, oneill and 4 others, coon, ingham,mansfield and hewitt were made up of a few different members, conner and mccloed mainly but not always. Then j b armstrong joined full time followed by frank. The 7 then did a couple of months on ops before joining 582. Unless frank was sent anywhere else after gunnery teaching those are the only 2 crews he flew with.
    Thanks alan w. You have sent me the orbs for 103,576and 582 a few months ago, this is how i know he didnt fly with cudlipps crew unless like i say,it was at training or a different sqd altogether before jan 44 and well before 1st of April 44.
    Hi kevin battle, yes i am a nice man.lol .have i offended anyone ? Should i not have added the 582 memorial link ? If so I apologise. I dont mean to criticise anyone about the photo if thats how it sounded, im more interested in finding out when,where and if frank flew with another crew or sqd
     
  15. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    No criticism of you implied. :biggrin:
    I was pointing that there must be a relative of Leonards actively researching, so there may be more to add from her, if she sees this thread.

    If Frank had completed one tour of 30 Operations, then he was a very brave man to continue.
    So he did 30 at least with 103; then gunnery school then to 576 for a few months then on to 582.
    103 didn't have any Stirlings, nor did 576 which was formed in November 1943 from "C" Flight of 103 Squadron and still sharing Elsham Wolds.

    582 was a Lancaster Pathfinder Squadron using marker flares as well as a reduced bomb load, as fits with description of the crash.

    So the Stirling photo must be at a Conversion Unit prior to posting to Operations. The most likely time to take a crew photo would be at the completion of the course before posting, so that would be shortly before getting to 576.
     
  16. jezabell

    jezabell New Member

    Thanks kevin. Yes, im I agreement with you. I think its where he did his gunnery teaching at we think 95% finningley or outside chance lindholme. Ive found a lady who has posted the same picture on a social network site called flickr. Ive contacted her but as yet no reply.she is a cudlipp. Fingers crossed. Il keep you posted on any news i get
     
  17. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    One further thing and that is the gunnery course.
    Unless he changed trades from what he flew as in 103, then it may be that it was a Squadron or Flight Gunnery Leaders course, which might narrow down the search.

    After all, I can't imagine anyone completing 30 Ops as a gunner, if he hadn't been trained as one!
    Pathfinders were the elite, so it would be logical that he would have undergone more rigorous training to not only hone his skills, but to be able to pass those techniques and abilities on to fresh aircrew.

    Of course, his Service Records will give accurate answers, not speculation!
     
  18. jezabell

    jezabell New Member

    Hi kevin. Frank went to blackpool to train up as a gunner, then to elsham to join 103 where he crewed up with maddern, he then went to finningley to teach and or further training before joining 576 and then 582. Ive been advised to get in touch with cranwell and get franks records. I think il do that and see what turns up
     
  19. dan35

    dan35 Junior Member

    Hello,
    We will in the coming months to honor the memory of the crew of the Lancaster Mk. III ND814. Request to set up a memorial at the crash site.
    This sometimes requires several months of research in the archives.
    I look Squadrons sent Rennes airfield on the night of 27/28 May 1944.

    78 Lancaster. Target.
    156 Squadron. 13 Avro Lancaster.
    582 Squadron. 16 Avro Lancaster.
    109 Squadron. 3 Mosquito.
    I miss the other squadrons.
     
  20. dawallace

    dawallace Junior Member

    Rennes Airfield (Z.250)
    May 27-28 1944
    H-Hour 0140
    Plan of attack:
    Primary Marking - Oboe Ground Marking using green low burst (700 ft.) Target Indicators
    1/105 Sqn on Ch.3 at H-8
    1/109 Sqn on Ch.1 at H-7
    1/105 Sqn on Ch.12 at H-8
    1/109 Sqn on Ch.11 at H-7 with 1 reserve from 109 Sqn following
    Oboe Ground Stations used were: Sennen, Tilly Whim, Beachy Head & Worth Matravers. Each Oboe Mosquito was watched and plotted going down the beam by both a "tracking station" and a "releasing station".
    Master Bomber: W/C DM "Dickie" Walbourne 582 Sqn ND.899 60-B with yellow Target Indicators
    Deputy Master Bomber: S/L HWB Heney 582 Sqn ND.814 60-T with white T.I.s
    Heney's aircraft was seen to explode over the target at 0145
    Illuminators - 2/405 Sqn + 2/635 Sqn at H-6, 4/582 Sqn at H-4
    Backers up - 2/582 Sqn at H+2 using white T.I.s
    Bombers - 8/582 Sqn + 14/7 Sqn + 14/405 Sqn + 13/156 Sqn + 14/635 Sqn + 2/35 Sqn
    The Mosquitos operated at 28,000' to 30,000', Illuminators were at 15,000'. Master Bomber and Deputy were at 10,000' to 11,000', a right hand orbit was specified for them. Backers up and Bombers were at 11,000' to 14,000'
    Master Bomber's Callsign: CARTEX
    Cease bombing codeword: MONKEYNUTS
     

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