5831469 Pte W H GIRLING, 2/5 Queens : Monty signature

Looking at your service record closer he seemed to have been assigned to 56 Div Signals in July 1942, not returning to 2/5 Queens until February 1943.

 

That adds to the puzzle. So far I haven't been able to find anything that puts either 2/5 or 56th in the region of Baghdad on 4th Nov 1942, the date of my Dad's leave pass.

 

Was 56th Division not one of the constituents of Persia and Iraq command, which was established in Baghdad in September '42?

 

Copy courtesy, I believe, of Stuart Avery

 

56th Infantry Division do go to Iraq, yes. Other parts of that divisional history suggest that the personnel sent on ahead to Egypt were not just from 2/5 Queens but other units also. The rest of the division arrived in Iraq via India.

The only way to find out about 56 Div Signals personnel being sent to Egypt is to get the 56 Div Signals WD and probably the divisional level ones as well.

 

As far as I can work out 56th went to Egypt after Iraq but my Dad was in Egypt before Iraq. I can't find anything about which groups of men went to Egypt first like my Dad did while the rest sailed on to Basra arriving on 4th November. My Dad's leave pass to Baghdad was for that date. Was there a connection or is it just coincidence?? There are over 500 miles between Basra and Baghdad. My dad's behaviour to do with that pass strongly suggests that there was much more to it than meets the eye, that is, it wasn't just to have some time off, there was a particular purpose.

 

We've already determined that there were men from 56th Division sent to Egypt arriving in October. They were then used to co-ordinate the transfer of vehicles to Iraq from then until early December. The 4th November date landing at Basra just refers to one battalion - it sometimes took weeks for all division's units to arrive and they also tended to send advance parties ahead.

I think you need to get the 56 Div Signals WDs for this period, certainly to start with.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 56 div signals 'WDs'? Also where would I get them? Thank you for your help with this.

 

War Diaries from the National Archives at Kew.

 

According to this [see link], The men didn't arrive at their destination, Kirkuk, a few miles North of Baghdad, until the middle of November with the transport arriving from Egypt [the men who were sent to Egypt to collect it while the majority sailed on to Basra] a fortnight later which makes it the end of November. If my Dad was one of those sent to collect the transport, how did he come to be in Baghdad on 4th November? Winter In Iraq quote from that page "The transport column arrived about a fortnight after the battalions, having driven overland from Suez across the deserts, and experiencing several sand-storms along the way."

 

Further to my query about my Dad's leave pass for 4th November in Baghdad and how important it was to him. I have now discovered the following -
PAIC was established in Sept 1942.
PAIC HQ was Baghdad.
Dad was taken on strength of PAIC on 29.10.42
4th Nov 1942 the date of my Dad's pass - British 56th (London) Infantry Division (Major General E. G. MILES) arrives their
direct from the United Kingdom.
I wonder if my Dad was there in some capacity to do with the arrival of that Major General?

 

Kirkuk is more than a “few” miles north of Baghdad…..it’s 236 km….almost 150 miles.

 

My Dad was in 2/5 Queens Royal West Surrey throughout his service, becoming part of 56th London sigs for a while, and though it doesn't say so on his records, he was also in 8th army. He was with 8th army in 42/43 fighting across Africa from Egypt to Tunisia. Does anyone know how/why it came to be that some of the men from 2/5 Queens became part of the 8th and fought their way across N Africa while others from that same battalion did the long march across N Africa only fighting once they reached Enfilaville?

 

We have now found that he was also with 8th army fighting across N Africa. Could that be something to do with what he was doing between those two dates? Also, it seems he was with US 5th in Sicily and then up the West cost of Italy. There is no mention of either 8th or 5th on his papers though.

 

2/5 Queens were in 169 Inf Bde in 56 Inf Div.

if you follow the Div and Bde you will see that they were switched between the two Armies. 56 Inf Div was in Eighth Army in North Africa but joined Fifth Army for the Salerno landings in Sep 43 and stayed with them until Rome fell in Jun 44. After a spell of rest, they rejoined Eighth Army for the remainder of the war.

Regards

Frank

 

It does he was with 56 Div Signals on his records a couple of times.

No men of 2/5th Queens fought their way across North Africa.

 

Where have you found out he was in Sicily? His records don't suggest that based on the units he was with. 168 Brigade from 56 Div did go to Sicily but 2/5 Queens weren't with that Brigade.

 

Mt brother said he was in Sicily but I think he may have just assumed that because the 5th were there. from what I remember of the little Dad said about his service, he landed at Salerno and continued up the West coast of Italy with 5th. Does that sound more likely?

 

This is the Chapters List for The Black Cats at War - the Story of the 56 Inf Div. If you would like a copy, I would be happy to Dropbox it to you so that you can see exactly what 56 Inf Div got up to. Just Start a Conversation with me.

Regards

Frank

 

That is very kind of you. However I have just taken delivery, about two hours ago, of a copy of this book that I found on the net. I look forward to reading it. I must say, I have been very impressed with the helpfulness of people on this forum.