62nd (Chemical Warfare) Company, R.E., H.Q. XV Indian Corps Troops engineers

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by High Wood, May 7, 2015.

  1. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    I am just working through some of my photograph albums looking for clues regarding the original owners and I would like some help regarding some of the photographs. The album is not annotated but their are some very interesting clues.

    The original owner seems to have been 2126138 L/Cpl Sydney G Sevier of the 62nd (Chemical Warfare) Coy. R.E. attached to India Command, India. This information is taken from one of two Aerographs that have been stuck in the album.

    From elsewhere on this forum I have discovered that the 62nd (C.W.) Coy, R.E. arrived in India on the 1st June 1942. Can it be confirmed that they arrived on the troop transport H.M.T. K13 as I have evidence in the form of a ship's newsletter that it may have done?

    Can anybody please tell me who Lieut. Col. H.T. Elliott commanded as he is mentioned as O.C. troops in the newsletter?

    I will post some interesting photographs as this thread progresses.

    Simon.
     

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  2. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    The first four photographs in the album are of the pre-printed tourist type and are views of various Bombay landmarks so It is probably safe to say that the 1st Chemical Warfare Group, R.E. including the 62nd (C.W.) Coy disembarked at Bombay.

    The next two photographs are group photographs.
     

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  3. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    I am particularly keen to identify the soldier circled in red in this photograph. He appears to be a Colour Sergeant or WO as he has a grenade above his Serjeant's chevrons.
     

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  4. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Gango 024.JPG Scivier 030.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
    Charpoy Chindit likes this.
  5. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    According to a list of R.E. Military Medal holders named Joseph that I have taken from the Recommendations of honours and awards index 1935-1990, the chap in my photograph should be one of these men. I just need to work out which of them if any, served in India and Burma.

    Joseph Henry Appleton. Cpl 252 Field Coy
    Joseph Bernstein, Palestine Port Operating Coy
    Robert Joseph Church L/Sgt 214 Field Coy
    David Joseph Dee. Spr 558 Field Coy
    Joseph Hardwick. L/Cpl 3 Field Squadron
    Joseph Frank Harrison, Cpl 257 Field Coy
    John Joseph Hennessey. Spr 42 Field Coy
    Joseph Hill. Cpl 248 Field Coy
    Joseph Arthur King, L/Sgt 237 Field Coy
    Joseph Mawdsley. Cpl 238 Field Coy
    Joseph Arthur Bevan Parks. 3 Cheshire Field Squadron
    Aubrey Joseph Phillips. Cpl 79 Assault Squadron
    Joseph Woods. A/L/Sgt 257 Field Coy
     
  6. Charpoy Chindit

    Charpoy Chindit Junior Member

    Sorry, there were no Burma MMs to REs called Joe.
    One for Malaya, but he would be wearing a Pacific Star not a Burma Star.

    Are you sure he is RE?

    I don't think they had Colour Serjeants in RE (Staff Sergeant the correct equivalent, I would think), but if it just chevrons and a grenade then he is a Serjeant.
    WOs don't wear chevrons.
     
  7. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Thank you for you input which has thrown up some interesting points. I am sure that you are right about the term Staff Sergeant rather than Colour Sergeant. My point though was that he appears to be a Staff Sergeant in the group photograph (If it is the same man), and in the later photograph he is wearing a leather wrist strap with a crown. I understood that a crown worn on a wrist strap with short sleeve uniform denoted a Warrant Officer but I may be wrong. If it does denote a W.O. he could have been promoted from Staff Sergeant after being awarded the M.M.

    The photograph is dated 1945 and Joe has put Burma in the caption. Is it possible that Joe was in Malaya and returned to Burma in 1945 but having been previously in Burma was entitled to a Burma Star with a Pacific clasp? Is the R.E. Malaya M.M. winner on my list above?

    As to the possibility of Joe not being in the R.E., the slip on shoulder titles are not fully visible and could be R.A, but as the original owner of the album was a Royal Engineer I had assumed that Joe was one of his fellow soldiers.

    Simon.
     
  8. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    A Japanese issued 100 rupee bank note signed by British soldiers is also in the photograph album.
     

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  9. Charpoy Chindit

    Charpoy Chindit Junior Member

    Yes, he is a WOII and so he would have been promoted from Sjt or S/Sjt. The MM could have been awarded at any point.

    Could the MM be for Malaya? No, that fellow was captured at the fall of Singapore.

    The slip-ons do look to be RE, but there was a Sjt Joseph Foy, MM of 2 Recce Regt, although that award wasn't gazetted until 06/06/46.

    Another possibility is that the MM wasn't awarded for Burma; although the absence of another campaign star makes it unlikely, it is possible, I think.
    If so the attached list of Burma MMs won't be of much use!

    View attachment JOES WITH A BURMA MM.doc

    It is also possible that Joe was a nickname - in which case, good luck!
     
  10. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    C.C.,
    thank you for the list of M.M. winners, it is much appreciated. I am going to look at the possibility of the slip on being R.A. rather than R.E

    I have looked at examples on the internet where the horizontal bar of the A does protrude slightly and might therefore appear to be an E if viewed from an acute angle, as in my photograph.
     
  11. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    4695783 L/Cpl John Joseph Sewell of the Royal Corps of Signals was awarded the M.M. whilst attached to H.Q. 15th Indian Corps so I have found a Burma M.M. for the right unit. I will see what else I can find.

    I now know that the attached photograph taken in Assam is of some of the H.Q. tradesmen.
     

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  12. Charpoy Chindit

    Charpoy Chindit Junior Member

    With regard to the slip-ons; RE ones often had a full stop after the R like this “R.E”. RA ones were similar too. That is one reason why I thought that “RECCE” was a better bet.

    Sewell was a Signalman with 22 Army Air Support Control, Indian Signal Corps and so he isn’t your man, I’m afraid.

    The RA guys.
    Downey was a WOII serving with 1 Cdo. MM for Hill 170 01/45.
    Espey was a Sjt with 82 LAA/ATK Regt. MM for Ningthoukong 06/44.
    Meek was a Sjt with 101 HAA Regt. MM for Myinmu Bridgehead 02/45.
    Morris was a Bdr with 27 Fd Regt. MM for Hill 170 01/45.
    Wheeler was a Gnr with 114 Fd Regt. MM for Satpangon 02/45.

    It is definitely not Espey – I have seen his photograph.
    I don’t see any way you can establish if one of these is your bloke, short of finding a another photograph
     
  13. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    With regard to the shoulder titles. I only have a single R.E. slip on title in my collection and having looked at it I am not convinced that the W.O. in the photo is R.E. I think R A is more likely.

    No 1 Commando were part of no 3 Commando Bde who were located in XV Indian Corps. So given that we have a W.O. who is a M.M. holder and who has a photograph in an album with a known XV Indian Corps connection, and who maybe wearing a R.A. shoulder title; BSM John Joseph Downey ought to be our man.

    The Commando Veterans Association website has a photograph of John Downey and whilst there is a passing resemblance, I am not convinced that he is our man.
     

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  14. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    It is tempting to speculate that this photograph from the album is of the 3 Commando Brigade hockey team but there is nothing to support the theory.
     

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  15. Charpoy Chindit

    Charpoy Chindit Junior Member

    It is definitely not Downey!

    The slip-ons that you show are the serge type which were less frequently used in the Far East, although not unknown. Your bloke is wearing the Indian version, usually machine woven on khaki or green.
    2441.jpg 3491.JPG
    I cannot remember having seen any Recce slip-ons.

    I think you need to disregard the 15 Corps connection. It was the HQ formation that commanded all of the troops in the Arakan. You need to concentrate on the unit, not the formation.
     
  16. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the update. My continued reference to the 15 Indian Corps is because the album originally belonged to a member of unit that was specifically attached to the H.Q. in my understanding; though of course, Joe doesn't have to be in the same unit but was almost certainly part of the same Corps. He also has to have been in Burma (Rangoon specifically) in 1945. The photographs below were taken at the Shwe Dagon pagoda in Rangoon.
     

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  17. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    In one of my earlier postings I uploaded this photograph. I have now been told that the chap on the left of the front row is wearing the formation sign of the 33rd Indian Corps and that the officer in the middle of the same row is wearing East Lancs epaulettes.
     

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  18. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    H.M.T. K 13 appears to have been the troopship that brought the soldiers to India in June 1942. A Lieutenant Colonel H.T. Elliott is described on this souvenir newspaper as being O.C. Troops. I now know that this was Lieut-Col Henry Thomas Elliott of the Regular Army Reserve of Officers List. Of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment He was on retirement pay (Res of Off) but recalled for special Employment 10th April 1942. Presumably to be O.C. Troops on a troop transport. He died on war service in Chichester in 1943 age 47.

    The newspaper has been autographed by various members of the Royal Engineers including L/Sgt William Crozier who was awarded the M.M. with the 62nd (C.W.) Coy R.E. in France in 1940.
     

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  19. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    The presence of T Shannon's signature on both the 1942 souvenir newspaper and the 100 Rupee bank note nicely links the arrival in India of the 62nd (C.W.) Coy, R.E. and their departure from Rangoon three years later.
     

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  20. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Reviewing what I have unearthed so far I have to conclude that; Joe, (assuming that that is his name and not a nickname), M.M. is a member of the Royal Engineers but was not awarded the M.M. in Burma. Therefore he must have been awarded it in an earlier campaign such as B.E.F. 1940 or Italy. We know that one member of the 62nd (C.W.) Coy, R.E., 1873951 L/Sgt William Frederick Crozier was awarded a M.M. in 1940 and ended up in Burma. We know that Dvr Albert John Hardy of the 58th (C.W.) Coy, R.E. was awarded the M.M. in 1940 and that the 58th (C.W.) Coy, also ended up in Burma.

    We also know that two L/Sgts, R.E. were awarded Military Medals in Italy. I am concentrating on L/Sgts as to get to be a WO2 once must have reached the rank of Sergeant at some point. These two L/Sgts served with 214 Field Coy and 237 Field Coy in Italy. So my next question is that in my understanding, most units that fought in Italy went on to N.W. Europe but did any move from Italy or N.W. Europe to Burma, particularly after V.E. Day? Is so this might explain why a R.E. M.M. holder got to be in Burma in 1945.
     

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