7877517 Squadron Sergeant Major Harold Jensen, 1st East Riding Yeomanry

Discussion in '1940' started by Drew5233, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Thought I'd post this up in the hope anyone can add anything specific to the timeline prior to him being captured?

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  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Annoyingly I can place nearly every Warrant Officer in the Regiment to a Squadron apart from him so I'm wondering if he was attached to another unit prior to capture. Also rather annoyingly he doesn't give a date or a specific place of capture which would have nailed it down some what if he did. Having briefly checked the war diary and history I reckon assuming he was with 1 ERY he was captured around Hazebrouck, Cassel or just north of there. I think the Belgium connection on his report is probably Watou. I know that B and C Squadrons were on the outskirts of the town and a lot of ERY PoWs were gathered in the main square there.

    I think I need to do some proper digging on this to find out more.
     
  3. LondonNik

    LondonNik Senior Member

    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I'll have a look tomorrow if I get time, assuming I can find my copy. I skimmed through the war diary, the regiments history and the RAC's Missing Men file but no joy yet.
     
  5. Jaaa

    Jaaa Member

    Drew well done,sorry just logged in today and spotted your post , you have the right man, I can only say he wears the royal tank corps uniform in photo when demobbed.
    Other photo's show him working on armored cars.
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Pictures? Can you post them up :)

    It would be really good to confirm either way if he was attached to another unit. If we can ID that I reckon I could give you a good idea on what he was doing prior to capture.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  7. Jaaa

    Jaaa Member

    Andy as per PM I will try for his service record.
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Cool - Don't forget the pics........We like pics ;)
     
  9. Jaaa

    Jaaa Member

  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Great pictures - The service records may hold more clues but I think the picture with him wearing a crown and laurels on his sleeve would make him a Troop Sergeant Major rather than a Squadron Sergeant Major.
     
  11. Jaaa

    Jaaa Member

    Well I'm ex forces and the rank he wears in the sqn photo says he is the man.
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    There was a WO III rank used for a short period of time at the start of the war. It was used to make up the short fall in junior officers to command Troops, Platoons etc. The badge was a crown with a laurel around it with Sergeant Majors being WO II's and wearing just the crown. The Crown and Laurel is still used today for WO II's who hold RQMS positions.

    I can't find the thread on here as the new search engine is returning 7 pages. Have a look on Wikipedia instead :)
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    (advanced search , click the cog icon. search for drew5233 as 'author' subject 'platoon sergeant major' less results, thread 9th on list.
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/17247-warrant-officer-class-iii-psm/


    excellent photos Jaaa, cheers for posting.
     
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Since I've been asked by someone to do a bit of vehicle ID-ing. (Happy to receive corrections, obviously.)

    Crossley Mk1 (turret from a light MkIII tank) :
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    1920 Pattern Rolls:
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    (Cracking photos by the way, Jaaa - thanks for posting.)
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  15. Blanket Stacker

    Blanket Stacker Junior Member

    Sorry to be a bit late on this but I believe you have the info about WOs badges of rank the wrong way round. WOIIs wore the crown within a wreath and WOIIIs wore the plain crown. Once the WOIII rank was abolished an order was issued (I'll try to find a reference) that CSMs and SSMs should wear the plain crown whils SQMSs and CQMSs were to wear the crown within a wreath. Lots of Sergeant Majors, possibly most of them, considered they were being ordered to wear the badge of a lower rank and refused to do so, continuing to wear the crown within a wreath until the end of the war. The authorities only got a grip on this situation after the war had finished and the Army got back to 'real soldering'.
     
  16. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Blanket Stacker

    I think you've got it partly wrong too. While I agree that WO2s now (and probably since the demise of the WO3) wear a plain crown, CQMSs and SQMSs are staff sergeants (colour sergeants to me as an infanteer) and wear a crown above their stripes. It is RQMSs (who are also WO2s) who wear the laurel round their crown.

    Chris
     
  17. Blanket Stacker

    Blanket Stacker Junior Member

    Reference my last, ACI 398 dated 17/9/38 dealt with the introduction of the WOIII rank and authorised the large crown, previously worn by CSMs and SSMs, as the rank badge. From this date all WOIIs were all to wear the crown in wreath. ACI 804 of 1940 announced that no further promotions to WOIII would be made but that holders would keep their rank until promotion, reduction or retirement. The regulations as to who wore what badge were not changed until ACI 991 of 1947 which restored the former situation i.e. Sergeant Majors wearing the large crown.
    The story about CSMs being orderd to wear the large crown and not liking the idea was something I read a long time ago, more than twenty years, and I cannot remember the source so this will have to go unverified. Bear in mind that the majority of these men, even the WOs, were not professional soldiers and knew nothing of how the Army had done things before they joined.
     
  18. Jaaa

    Jaaa Member

    Just thought I had better update you guys how my search is progressing.
    At the moment I have not applied for Harry's service record because in the past few weeks I have successfully found records of his missing son and family living in the Nottinghamshire area , so I am not able to apply as next of kin . I have not tried searching them out yet but it would be great to meet and give them his medals etc. (That's another search in how to)
    Do we have anyone one the forum searching WW1 records?
    I have a Kings Royal Rifle Corps member of my late family who signed up in 1902. I have his Sheffield enlistment form only.
    Regards to all.
     

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