86th Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery

My father in law was Gunner Raymond Pugh and he served in the 86th Anti Tank Regiment, RA from 1944-46. I have his army records with the basics of his time with them but would like to know more about the regiment's movements through France up to their final months, which I know from his letters, were spent in Germany. He landed in North West Europe on 29 June 1944 (I'm guessing France, but would like to know exactly where they landed). I know he saw action in Normandy but would like to know more about where and what battles they were involved in, as we frequently visit this part of France and would like to pay our respects to his comrades if we were nearby. I have located the reference to the war diaries and have written to some researchers to request copying quotes as I am not able to get to the archives myself. Any information in the meantime would be much appreciated as I am not all that familiar with military research, in particular the seemingly complicated make up of regiments, batteries, corps, troops etc.!
Thanks in advance
Cari

 

Hello Cari

There are a couple of forum members who can copy war diaries at Kew for a fraction of the cost; many members have used them. I am sure they will be along soon to help.

Lesley

 

Thank you for all of that information, I never even thought of doing a search like that. Very useful, I will most definitely have a look at them and find out which we can visit. Cari

 

Hi all, I've just signed up here and realise this is an old thread but looking for more info on the actions my father served in.

Sadly he passed back in 1999 and I never got to ask all of the questions I should. As with many veterans he never liked to talk much about the war and I ignorantly never saw the importance of the stories and info.

On a recent visit to Normandy I visited the Hill 112 memorial (one of the actions I know he saw) and was trying to make sense of the snippets that I know. What I do know is:

He signed up in Plymouth and served in the Royal Devonshires.
Early in his service he was rapidly promoted through to Sgt. as were several of his comrades.
At some point he was transferred to Royal Artillery unit and for the most part of the war was in an M10 Sherman.
On D day he went across on D14 onto Sword beach and was involved in the battle for Caen including Hill 112 in late June and early July.
Later on he was involved in the advance through Falaise and eventually the advance through to the Rhine.
After the war I know he went9 to Nairobi and was involved in a peacekeeping and "clear-up" operation.

In my quest for more info it has brought me here. From what I can make out, the pattern of his service seems to fit with that of the 5th Batt Royal Devonshires / 86th Batt Royal Artillery.

What I'm hoping is that someone here can point me in the right direction and confirm if I'm going down the right road..?

Thanks in advance.

Bob

 

The British Army went to war in 1939 without enough Anti tank or anti aircraft guns or units to man them. It had too high a proportion of infantry to supporting arms. Some 20-40 infantry battalions were converted into antitank and anti aircraft gunners.

86 Anti tank Regiment were the XII corps anti tank regiment. By the time the went into battle in 1944 they were equipped with a mixture of towed and SP 17 pounder guns. The corps reserve was the mobile reserve of anti-tank guns. The towed 17 pounders were the backstop to any potential tank threat. The M10s were the fire brigade, and deployed where there was a need for mobile anti-tank guns.

The M10s were in great demand. At a strategic level allies were doing most of the attacking. However, German defence tactics were based on rapid counter attacks, with tanks or SP guns if they had them. The British faced some very heavy tanks that only could be stopped with a 17 pounder gun. M10s would accompany the infantry following the attack and then provide the anti tank defence until towed equipment could be dug in. This could take 12 hours. The M10 was not a tank and not supposed to be used as a tank. It had even less armour than the Sherman and no turret roof. That did not stop them from being used occasionally as assault guns.

The M10 seems to have been popular with the gunners who served it. It offered more protection than the shield of the towed equipment. 61 fatalities would mean a total casualty list of some 300 based on the proportion of one killed to four wounded. That is a lot out of a Regiment of some 500-600 men in gun batteries . The casualty rate was a but under a half that experienced by infantry battalions in the same campaign - but still high for a supporting arm

 

86 Anti Tank Regt

 

Strangely I am the very same 'barry slemmings' whose photo is posted above.

I have just posted here 86th Anti-Tank Regiment - SPs? on the subject of what the regiment was armed with. My late father was Wally Slemmings.

 

I have been reviewing a lot of Pathé newsreels on You Tube in the last few weeks and it does seem that M-10s were deployed a lot around Churchill tanks. The Churchill had much better armour but was armed with the weaker 6-pounder A/T or the general purpose 75mm gun. The armour on the M-10 was thinner but it did pack a more powerful punch with its 17-pounder. Given that Hill 112 was a major deployment of a Churchill tank brigade it makes sense that the 86th would have been deployed there as well. The M-10s could give 'overwatch' support to the Churchills.

I have also seen photographs of towed 17-pounders deployed on the approaches to Nijmegen bridge after its capture. My father was certain that those were the 86th's guns as he (a fitter) and other fitters and gunners were deployed on the bridge firing upstream with rifles and Bren Guns at any German mines or midget submarines which attempted to come down river to destroy it. Upstream the river bent back into the German lines.

 

Taken at Scotney Castle today, perhaps useful to anyone interested in the 86th Anti-tank Regiment and Lt Hillersley, and particularly their signal section.

Scotney Castle

 

Hello, do you know if your father passed through Airaines on September 1st, 1944? There was fighting that day and Major Nightingale was killed and 2 drivers missing. I am looking for information about this regiment for this period.


Looking forward to your answer. cordially Franck

 

H

Hello Cari,
I realize this is an old thread but my late father Ben Lennard also served with the 86th(5th Devon’s) and sailed for France on the same day as your father in law landing on Juno beach at Courseulles sur Mer. One of their first operations was at Hill 112 and I can strongly recommend Tim Saunders’ book “Hill 112”(Pen and Sword books) on the subject if you don’t already know about it. I have visited the memorial several times( the first time as a child with my father). Some time in the autumn of 1944 the regiment followed XXX Corps into the Belgian town of Hamont(liberated 20th September) and was billeted there for several weeks with local families- I am still in touch with members of my father’s host family! I am interested to know how soon after liberation they arrived( the surviving son-then only 6- can’t remember). My father corresponded for a time with a former comrade and I have a letter stored in the attic (which I shall unearth ) containing more information as to their whereabouts during 1944-5.My father was born in Gravesend and I have photo taken in Shoreham, Kent presumably before they set off to Normandy. On the back he has written:
“ Shoreham 1944 Troop HQ 128
Battery,138 A/T Regt.”
Very best wishes!
Jane Suff.

 

Correction-“128 battery, 86th A/T regt.”

 

My late father Benjamin Lennard was a lance bombardier with the 86th(128 battery).He too landed in France at the end of June via Juno beach and took part in the battle for Hill
112 amongst others. He was billeted in a town called Hamont on the Belgian/ Dutch border from September or October 1944 with the Emmers family. He maintained contact with them and I am in touch with the surviving member of the family to this day!

 

Hi,

I don't know if anyone is watching this tread anymore and if someone could help but I'm trying to find information about my grandfather's service during the Normandy campaign.

He was originally a tank commander of a Churchill in the 15th Hussars but then was transferred (I was told) and became a Bombardier and was wounded on 27/07/44. He told me that he was blown out of the turret and the rest of his five man crew was killed.

From XXX I saw that he was listed as being part of the 86th Anti Tank Regt.

Would they have had Churchills attached to them for protection?

His name was John Douglas McMorrin service number 7905189

Any help would be much appreciated, as I'm not sure Churchill were even part of the Anti Tank units.

Thanks

Tris

 

Hello Tristan,
The 86th were not a tank regiment. Their equipment consisted of self-propelled M-10’s and 17 pounders towed by modified Crusader tanks. You can get better and more detailed information on the site from real experts who know a lot more about these things than me! But looking at the regimental War Diary entry for 27/07/44 I see no record of the accident you describe. And from what I have read it looks as if the 15th Hussars were still in the UK at this time.If I’ve understood correctly they were sent to France in August ‘44.
Very best,
Jane.

 

Hi Jane

Thanks for your reply. From piecing things together from the war diaries, I now believe that he was part of an M10 crew knocked out on the 10th in the fighting around hill 112. I've found him on an establishment as a Driver/mechanic AFV, so I'm thinking M10s. (He was possibly transferred from the 15th Hussars to drive the M10s?). I have also found him on the casualty list as not remembering when he actually was injured so I'm not sure where the 27th July date came from on a transcript.

Do you know if each battery would have kept a diary? The Regimental Diary can be a bit lacking in detail.

Thanks again for your reply and any other help you could give.

Tris

 

Hello Tristram,
I don’t know about the battery diaries but would also be interested to know; “Drew”( Andy) on the site provided me with copies of the War Diaries- perhaps he would know? My father was with 128 battery. They and 130th battery were equipped with towed 17 pounders. 129/340 battery had the M10’s- I expect you know this already.My father’s battery are listed in the diaries as being deployed behind the forward infantry in the battle for Hill 112.Have you been to see the memorial? It’s well worth a visit.
Very best
Jane.

 

Hi Jane

I didn't know about the batteries that had the M10s, so thank you. I only started looking at the weekend so I'm pretty new to this.

I've asked Andy about any further battery diaries so I'll let you know.

I want to travel over to France once all this Covid stuff is over and take my so but he doesn't seem all that interested

Tris