90877 Stanley Smith DFC DFM

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by idler, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Would anyone be able to assist wih citations for the above, please?

    The chap concerned has recently died in a care home leaving no next of kin and a member of a Facebook group is trying to piece together his background.

    Thanks in anticipation...
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I'll post his DFM later, remind me if I don't.
     
  3. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Cheers, Andy.

    Is it too early to remind you, yet?
     
  4. Eva617

    Eva617 New Member

    I thought this may be him, taken from
    http://rcafassociation.ca/uploads/airforce/2009/07/RAFINRCA.S-Z.htm
    However the update on his full name is: Stanley Gorden Grieve Smith

    SMITH, P/O Stanley (RAF 176715) - Distinguished Flying Cross - No.434 Squadron - awarded as per London Gazette dated 19 January 1945. Born 1922 in Skiton, Yorkshire; home there; educated at Brougham Street County Council School. Servd in the ranks; commissioned May 1944. Air Ministry Bulletin 17146/AL.960 refers. No published citation other than "completed operations with courage and devotion to duty." DHist file 181.009 D.3080 (RG.24 Volume 20636) has recommendation (undated) listing 39 sorties (196 hours 46 minutes), 14 October 1943 to late September 1944 (document torn and dates incomplete). Flight Engineer.

    Pilot Officer Smith has completed a tour of operations totalling 39 operations , nine of which were attacks against heavily defended major German targets including Kassel, Dusseldorf, Stuttgart and Berlin. He has also participated in minelaying operations in the Kiel and Baltic areas. On four different occasions the operations were completed under very harassing circumstances. At all times Pilot Officer Smith as Flight Engineer had displayed high skill, determination and zeal. His coolness and complete fearlessness while in action has been an example to all members of the squadron.
     
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Idler

    This is a good possibility of being his birth details - do they fit with the facebook info?

    Name: Stanley Smith
    Mother's Maiden Surname: Carr
    Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1922
    Registration district: Skipton
    Inferred County: Yorkshire
    Volume Number: 9a
    Page Number: 74

    The article above has him born in Skiton, but I have assumed they meant Skipton

    TD
     
  6. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Thanks Eva and TD. However, an FB update has his DOB as 5 April 1924. It is also mentioned that he may have been a warrant officer, which would explain the DFM and DFC pair.
     
  7. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Senior Member

    A bit to correct before any trace can be done.

    90877 is a early RAF number from the formation years but was assigned to George Smith

    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11756465

    So not applicable to someone born in 1924

    A glance through holders of both DFM and DFC shows no one with the name Stanley Smith

    The birth year suggests an entry to service circa 1943/44 which is quite late to give the senario to complete aircrew training then rise from Sgt to WO, award of DFM before gaining a commission and DFC.

    Possible for a combination of late/post war service but not common.

    Ross
     
  8. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Thanks Ross. Weren't RAF WOs eligible for crosses instead of medals like Army WOs with the MC instead of MM?
     
  9. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Senior Member

    Yes if award was gazetted when substansive rank was W/O then DFC instead of DFM

    but DFM could have been gained prior to Warrant being announced or during period of prior NCO service.

    Dual DFC/DFM award to Smith is not common

    Dual Holders listed are
    Robert Leslie Smith
    Lewis George Smith
    Eric Harold Smith
    Edward Miles Smith
    Denis Normam Smith
    David Smith

    The meagre back story has too many fingers in the pie - creating a smokescreen of fiction.

    Once facts not feelings are established then progress can be made on this one but at the moment it does not stack up.

    Ross
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    A long shot Andy but could Stanley be his middle, preferred, name? I often go into homes to find some of them have a preferred name over the name they were christened with?
     
  11. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Yes, the starting point is a bit muddled. I wouldn't be surprised if they turned out to be a brother's medals, or something like that.
     
  12. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Senior Member

    I've been looking at the listed Dual holders

    FreeBMD has a Lewis G Smith born in second quarter 1924, registered Birmingham District

    This is detail of DFM and DFC

    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/15783/lot/65/

    Might be source of error in linking 90877 George Smith to Stanley Smith.

    Long shot but has circumstancial links

    edit - L G Smith was commissioned from temp F/Sgt so although not W/O it's close enough for family recolection/history

    Ross
     
  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Idler

    You say he died recently - do you have a date and location for that (i.e. local registrars office type location), I might be able to work backwards (as I often do, some might say)

    TD
     
  14. AlanW

    AlanW Senior Member

    Hi Ross,
    The chap on FB is called Stanley Gordon Grieve Smith, born Uckfield, Sussex, and as for the service number given, the closest i can find in AIR78 is 1890877 Stanley Gordon Smith, with a prefix of "EH" stamped on the card. The airman from 434sqdn is a completely different bloke altogether. The FB thread is a shambles, with so many people clutching at straws, they will soon have enough bales to furnish a stable. The tenuous link to 434sqdn was simply because they found the number 877, and promptly associated it with Halifax LK877, quite laughable really.
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  15. idler

    idler GeneralList

    That's him, Alan. Against the odds, FB might have cracked it: 1890877 Stanley Gordon Smith who was a sergeant airgunner with 138 Sqn when he was brought down and made a POW. They've even dredged up an identifiable photo of him and his crew in 1943 (although he's been remembered as labelled as 'Sydney').

    Apparently the medals are in the care of some solicitors so that mystery will persist for a bit.
     
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Name: S G Smith
    Rank: Flight Sergeant
    Army Number: 1890877
    Regiment: Royal Air Force : Officers & Other Ranks
    POW Number: 267479
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: 4B
    Camp Location: Muhlberg (Elbe), Germany
    Section: Royal Air Force : Officers & Other Ranks

    TD
     
  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Stanley G G Smith in the England & Wales, Birth Index, 1916-2005


    Name: Stanley G G Smith
    Mother's Maiden Surname: Bishop
    Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1924
    Registration district: Uckfield
    Inferred County: Hampshire
    Volume Number: 2b
    Page Number: 178

    Not sure how long Uckfield has been in Hampshire ??

    TD
     
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    :lol:
     
  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    So did he get a DFM then?
     
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I've found a 1128846 Sydney Smith Mid-Upper Gunner with 61 Squadron
     

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