A tank a day keeps Politicians at bay.

Discussion in 'The Barracks' started by von Poop, Nov 1, 2019.

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  1. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    LAC has a nice collection of Canadian Centurion photographs. Used until 1977.

    1972: Not sure how to interpret this, but "Ex Cdn. Club. A Centurion stands sentry during the early morning fog." 25-28 Sept 1972.
    cent.jpg

    "A Centurion tank of "B" sqn. The Royal Canadian Dragoons, in support of "A" coy, 3 Mech Cdo crosses near Neustift. 1973."
    cent2.jpg
     
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  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Smidge more on it from Foss/Mckenzie 'The Vickers Tanks'.
    "For the commercial market the company offered two designs based on a Wolseley car chassis. One type appeared as a handsome open tourer while the other was demonstrated as an armoured car."

    WOLSELEY.jpg

    D3fvU4HWkAIM4Me.jpg

    1FS-1-700x329.jpg

    This Russian site seems to know more, with it being displayed in 1927, but I don't have his cited references:
    Google Translate

    Sounds like that 'Colonial Conference' in 1927 might be worth a dig into.
     
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  3. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    Both Rolls Royce and Vickers had their eyes not so much on the colonial market but on the Indian princely states where the local rulers were often happy to splash out on big luxurious cars but lacked decent roads to run them on. My first 'proper' job in the late 60s was as a graduate apprentice at Rolls Royce back in the day when cars and aero engines were all part of the same company. The Historical Department told the story of one Maharajah who bought two Roll Royces that had to be carried by teams of bearers from the railway to the ruler's palace, a journey of over 30 miles. They were then only used when he was driven a couple of miles to open his local legislative council once a year. The RR solution was to consider producing a half track for sale to the super rich who lived off the beaten track around the world but it was considered that this would produce a vehicle inconsistent with the standards pf dignity that RR wished to be associated with their cars
    The Maharajah's cars were confiscated by the Indian government on Independence and languished in their garage ever since.

    I have a feeling that although Vickers were offering two versions of their vehicle there was only ever one physical car with different bodies on the same chassis and the open tourer version acting as the prototype to develop the system before an armoured body was to be fitted.,but I'm going on memories of what I was told
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Looking at photos of Canadian Forces in Germany.
    Are these German civies saluting in the way I think they are ?

    Harold A. Skaarup Web page

    (Library and Archives Canada Photo, MIKAN No. 4976236)

    Centurion Main Battle tank, 8th Canadian Hussars, on exercise in Northern Germany, Sep 1960.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    If on Friday the 13th nobody has enough members to form a thingymejig and there has to be another whatsit called does that mean that this thread will have to stretch out like the vision of Banquoe's descendants in the Scottish play to the very crack of doom?
     
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  6. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    I hope they're just waving...
     
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  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    :D:unsure:

    A mate with a long history in our diplomatic services tells of young German squaddies deploying into Croatia in the 90s.
    Their columns of trucks being greeted on arrival by cheering locals lining the roads with, cough, 'the old salute', and waving certain infamous flags.
    Describes their faces as the very definition of disconcerted...
     
  8. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA Patron

    They're probably Nazis but that barn has it all. Thatched roof, timbered walls, old hay rake. I think it needs appropriating.
     
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  9. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    38

    T54/55

    Thoughts of Centurion lead me to its most likely tank-on-tank adversary.

    I'm not great on mid century Sov stuff. Think the sometimes subtle recognition differences between types can cause me to turn away ('Some sort of upside-down frying pan Russki tank' usually my first ID), but it's hard not to give this thing some credit as a 'classic' tank. Purists might not merge 54 & 55, but I am, and don't care. I can at least differentiate between them & later T tanks by that wheel gap (Though I'm not even certain that's universal.)

    34, IS2, IS3 all have that slightly archaic design feel.
    This is 'modern'. A postwar AFV for the cold war.

    Still in service, used by a multitude of nations from USSR satellites & clients to opponents that captured them en-masse.
    Built outside of the USSR (maybe sometimes licensed, maybe not. Not absolutely sure.)
    More than 85k built if you throw in all the variants. The most common tank in history?
    All the postwar MBT boxes ticked including adaptability to other roles, with a large dollop of that Soviet mechanical simplicity. One blog refers to it as 'The AK47 of tanks' - seems fair.

    Not uncommon on the show circuit, so doubtless many of us have seen it's party trick:
    A built-in ability to dump a certain amount of diesel from the fuel system onto the exhausts, creating a spectacular smokescreen (usually shortly accompanied by the sound of several hundred spectators coughing).


    Doubtless some T60-ish things have crept in here.
    Like I say; frying pans. They look broadly similar to me. :unsure:

    Tank_T-54_in_Verkhnyaya_Pyshma.jpg T-55_icon.jpg img6921.jpg luna_early.jpg t55_enigma.jpg 2004_0724_164040aa.jpg 3-engineering-vehicle.jpg 30863576832_1435c7f87b_b.jpg 2652653482_27381a00d0_z.jpg 92342b435c4d0c0e77900d83a5e550f2_f1205.jpg Type_69_Operation_Desert_Storm.jpg yvacb4jbiqo31.jpg SafirTank.jpg tumblr_ppouoilYMu1rkk4wr_540.jpg 3305659931_e7e9439be0_b.jpg Annotation 2019-12-08 233536.jpg Yugo T55_src.jpg 4668eb1afc214932d418b5f07ec41427.jpg 272a-T-54-55.jpg
     
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  10. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA Patron

    I only learned a couple of years ago that the T54/55 had its V-12 mounted transversely when I saw a scale model of one at a show with the engine cover open.
     
  11. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Ouch!

    Syria T72.

     
  12. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA Patron

    Must be CGI. History Channel TV says diesel tanks don't burn.
     
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  13. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA Patron

    Saigon Presidential Palace picture

    upload_2019-12-9_10-0-48.png
     
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  14. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    It was the ammunition cooking off, not the fuel.

    The lucky chap was, of course, the one who ran around the back of the tank a few seconds after the initial hit. Must have had quite a headache.
     
  15. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA Patron

    You can't fool me. History channel says Sherman ammo fires were caused by 'petrol' engine ;)
     
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  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The only real entertainment the history channel ever gave me was reading Mr Kenny causing Tigrz r kule types on their forums to explode with indignation. :unsure:
    I seem to recall an inexhaustible supply of battered combatants...
     
  17. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    39

    StuGs & Stuhs

    "The Sturmartillerie is, on the other hand, a weapon to assist the normal infantry Division. Their use during the attack corresponds to the Escort Artillery of the last war, that is, the elite of the light artillery. ... Assault artillery fights as escort artillery within the framework of the infantry. It does not attack like the tank, does not break through, but carries the attack of the infantry forward by quickly eliminating the most dangerous objectives through direct fire.... the platoon, or even the individual gun, makes a surprise appearance and then quickly vanishes before it can become a target for the enemy artillery."

    ~ von Manstein - terrible author but quite successful officer.

    Again, not technically tanks, but stood in officially for turreted things when production issues made them the only option.
    Starting life as an adjunct to the Infantry as old Erich describes, but evolved into a ubiquitous machine in Assault gun, Howitzer, & SPATG roles that served pretty much wherever the Wehrmacht & SS did.
    Based on Mk.III & IV chassis, without any of that expensive & intensive need to manufacture turrets.
    Losing a turret isn't exactly a small deficiency, but seriously, the money, time & industrial effort saved without that feature was significant (look no ball race!), and you still end up with a good gun in an armoured box, with the lowest possible profile.
    Not that that industrial savings were the thought process behind the initial variants, but it did pay off during the aforementioned tank shortage.

    I like 'em.
    One of Germany's pragmatic machines. Probably only an evolutionary dead end in the sense that missiles & man-portable stuff might eventually do the same support job, but the concept lasted longer postwar than interleaved wheels & other things that went in the slops bucket.
    The Finns soldiered on with theirs until the 60s, and then emplaced a few for airfield defence up to the 80s. (?)
    The Spanish until the mid 50s.
    Deployed by Syria until quite late. Presumably via French supply lines. Hence the well-known Golan hulk/s (Which I'd really like to see one day. I won't, but I'd like to.)

    Pictures too easy. Sorry!
    Sturmgeschutz_StuG_III_in_Sieradz_Poland.jpg cKeezLZ.jpg b3894-rfdrgthryht.jpg Stug-5.jpg 288StuG3-StuG.III-D-captured in April 42 south of the Gazala Positions-M.jpg WqDcr9d.jpg santa.jpg g1.jpg 9153276062_3031ef023a_z.jpg stugiiimount.jpg 41fe05ce237059639d5379f92354f8ff.jpg ghcu0gb5zg321.jpg 13469635014_549b066a18_b.jpg new03.jpg B4VywBR_KgvMhsVz-OZViBMiby88VnrXVM3Kuyu6xBc.jpg o633311960566406250.jpg untitled-design-41-1-1280x720.jpg wMeYBHm.jpg

    Frustrating StuG 40.
    Recovered complete down to its tools in 2000-something.
    W&T reported it got stuck in bureaucracy and its external fittings nicked.
    Not looked into it for a long while but it appears to have spent years rusting outside.
    Knowing some perfect condition Russki recoveries, it's as likely to be painted in Red Square green with white rims by now. :rolleyes:
    (More pics: Google Translate)
    b4a5a45197b824b1238bbc2631be9071.jpg STUG3.jpg
     
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  18. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    Worth pointing out that the world's first tanks did not have a gun turret
     
  19. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    It always is, especially when someone's getting exercised about tankishness.

    Though I suppose the StuG's more of a relative of the Gun Carrier.
    GC103-gun-carrier.jpg
     
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  20. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    More the St Chamond I would think
     

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