A13s in 7th Hussars

Does anyone know if the A13s in 7th Hussars during 1941 were MkI, MkII or a mix?

Thanks.

David.

 

What does it say in the Peter Brown articles from Military Modelling that you possess?

 

Would you like me to ask Peter himself?

 

I only have two articles (I understand that there were at least three) and they don't hardly mention 7th Hussars, and they rarely distinguish between the marks, simply referring to them as A13 or Mk IVs.

Yes please!

Thanks to you both for your responses.

 

Viz the A13, if you've got two, that's one more than me!

My personal opinion, for what it's worth (and why I suggested you check the Peter Brown articles) is that no Cruiser Mk.III (A13 Mk.I) were sent to the Middle East at all.

I say that with one caveat. Mk.III were going through a facelift* early to mid-40 that make them almost impossible to distinguish from the Mk.IV - except to the trained eye. So it is not impossible some were sent but listed at Mk.IV. But I'd be surprised if they were, as the thin skinned 'light' cruisers were not dispatched post June 1940 - except for 6 off Mk.Ics with 2RTR.



Note that only 65 were ever built - and all before 1940. They were old and tired. At least 38 were lost in France and one can assume it was not more given that the 'missing' ?27? were in workshops undergoing major refurbishment and turret armour uplift.

 

Mark.
I value your opinions and input.

Just one issue with what you have written above, and that is the total numbers of A13MkI. I understand that they were serial numbered T4385 - T4489. Isn't that 105?

 

Ooops!

T 4456 - T 4484 were Lt tank MkVIb.

So that reduces the number to 76.

 

I don't make any effort to track T numbers. It is using those lists that so, so many sources of information are so wrong. Why? Simple, blocks of registrations are allocated when orders for vehicles are placed. All too often, some of the production run is cancelled. Thus, a block of serial numbers on paper do not exist in real life.

I do not suggest that's what happened to the A13 Mk.I / Cruiser Mk.III, it's just a bit of useless/useful info.

However, I have the Bellona print for the A13, and that says (for what it's worth) that the serials were T4385 to T4449 only. Additionally, Fletcher, Janes, Brown and others all quote only 65 ever built. It's one of the only numbers that everybody seems to agree on. At least, that's what I thought until your post just now.

 

I'm not saying that I am right. I too have seen the oft quoted figure of 65.

 

If no-one comes up with anything concrete I shall probably end up assuming that they are MkII when refered to as just A13s, unless specified as MkI.

 

I've contacted Peter Brown who will try to respond directly on this thread. As expected, nothing is straightforward when considering the A13 so I will leave it to Peter to respond rather than me possibly muddying the waters. You may also be interested to learn that Peter is about to publish a book about the A13.

 

Sounds great to both response & book!

 

I have received the following information from Peter Brown. I hope this helps.

"All the information I have been able to find on A13 series tanks sent to
the Middle East says they were A13 Mk IIA Cruiser IVA
Some War Diaries and reports list them as "A13" or "Cruiser IV" but photos
and listed serial numbers show they were IVA
I have the old Bellona Print on the tank, it has a lot of errors such as
"A13 Mk I converted to Mk II" and CS tanks and the serial numbers listing is
not accurate.
As to my old articles, they ran in "Military Modelling" in 2011 issues Vol
40 Nos 11, 12, 14 and 15 and 2012 Vol 41 Nos 1, 2, 4, 5 and 6 (The gaps were
for special issues)
Anyone interested should look out for Armor PhotoHistory No 4 which is about
to go to the printers."

Thanks again to Peter whose book, incidentally, is scheduled for publication in February according to the publishers website.

 

Being new to the forum l'm still finding new stuff and l doubt l've even scratched the surface yet.

Found this thread that you (David) started 18 months ago. http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/48985-a13-mki/

Different responders with pretty much the same response.

Mark

 

SDP.

Thanks, and thanks to Peter.

9 articles, and I only have 2, no wonder I have gaps!

The book sounds great, I shall certainly buy it if within budget.

Mark.

Thanks for the reminder, I knew I had asked the question somewhere before, but was not sure as to if it was on this forum or not.

Peter thinks no MkI in desert. Most others think some, so generally inconclusive, but I'm inclined towards Peter's zero, as his research seems deeper and is backed up at least by the complete lack of photographic evidence. As I said earlier, I think I will assume MkII except where MkI is specified.

 

For avoidance of doubt, Peters research is very high quality so you can assume that there were no MkI in the desert and no MkI were converted to MkII.

 

Thanks for that.

Changing tack a bit, any A13 close support tanks in the desert?

 

A question you keep asking and receiving the same answer to.

There were no A13cs. Anywhere. See yesterday's note from Peter Brown above courtesy of SDP.

 

Mark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Chadwick

Re A13c/s. Sorry, losing the plot!

 

The wiki bio only inspires me to the conclusion that, despire his obvious desire to shout to the world how much he 'knows', in reality all he's doing is misleading his readership with spurious and inaccurate garbage and fantasy.