Greetings all I have a number of records for a chap who was a signaller in the Royal Artillery in WWII. Most of the abbreviations and acronyms I can get, but there are a load which are stumping me. I have a fairly good knowledge, and several print offs from this forum and others which are useful, but there are those I can not get. So I look to those on here who have such knowledge! So, to reiterate from the previous posting, these are the questions: SG 3 Plus O/S NIL 2 Sep 1944? A Part Two Order listed as 2/43 180 Rm Fd, and in the Postings column is Perm Cadre, so Permanent Cadre? Another Part Two Order 182/45 and under Postings - RAHXG 31-7-45? Another Part Two Order 1582/45 ? Army Form D.475 has M.N.I. code 19? Age and Service Group 23C (His age was 23, but what does the C mean?) Officer in charge Records R/NS/Stats No 1 being d/d/ 23.10.41? Post Mob. Sig? Proceeded on No 32 PMRSI Course Bat B? He was noted as being posted to Cadre Strength 272/120 Field Regiment RA, any idea where this was? Term of Service 21 A/Gp? 46 Reinforcement Holding Unit from Draft RAXHG? 46/ARTY/67G & 68H?
Interposted from Cadre to holding strength on 25/5/45. As the war was over the whole aspect of the army changed from training up fighting men to peace time duties. Posted to Draft Serial no RAXHG with effect from 30/7/45. (code no, used so all men and equipment was kept together). This draft would be men and equipment going abroad. They would be on the list X(iv) (Reinforcements) to replace men who had been in NWE, during the war. Embarked from UK for British Liberation Army in North West Europe 31/7/45. (TOS) Taken on Strength of 21 Army Group and put on X(iv) list. When they arrived in NWE the whole draft went to 46 Reinforcement holding unit. 2/8/45. From there they were taken off X(iv) list and posted to 33 RHU. Under the army order 46/ARTY/67G & 68H. where they did whatever, as 94th FD (Field) 12/8/45. 26/10/45. Hospital examined and found fit for further service in medical category A1. This would be a regular medical examination, was also done just before demob. Will look at other bits later. My definition of part two orders. Deciphering service record
Hi, I think it would help if you could you cross ref the queried entries in your post to the Army Form you've noted it on please so we don't miss anything. Just looking quickly at a couple of your queries - "PMRSI Cat B" is entry you note as PMRSI Bat B It's some sort of signalling course - can't interpret PMR but SI is likely Signal(s) Instructor? Attended a course a graded Cat B. "Age & Service Group 23C" - your query "his age is 23 what is C ?" He was born in 1911 and was 29 when he was conscripted so where do you get age 23 from? Steve Y
RCG has it covered already, but we discussed Draft Codes a while back when I was puzzled by the code assigned to my grandfather's unit as they travelled to India in 1942. Here is the link: Draft recognition codes.
Hi David Welcome to the forum. Further to Steve Y's reply re PMRSI (or P.M.RSI), the "RSI" bit would be "Regimental Signals Instructor" hence the length of the course (almost 2 months) (I was once an RSI but my course was compressed into 2 weeks!). As regards your query re Part 2 Orders, again further to RCG's reply above, during a soldier's career, he would undergo training etc. and on completion of such training he would be re-categorized / re-classed according to the nature of the training, also there may be events involving his Unit (e.g. mobilised and sent abroad). If we use the examples on Sheet 2, he attended and passed his Signals course and was qualified as B2, as confirmed by the School of Signals. In order that he could be paid at the appropriate rate of pay (i.e. for a B2 soldier), the Regimental Pay Office (RPO) needs to be informed. Therefore his Unit would prepare a Part 2 Order (P2O) recording this fact and notify the RPO by sending them a copy of the P2O showing the new qualification, to be actioned and thus get paid at the new pay rate. The P2O number would then be recorded against his individual record, along with brief details. In the case of a whole unit (or parts thereof), such as the move to Germany, this would (could) be done by attaching a list of the personnel involved to the P2O. P2Os are numbered sequentially from the start of the year e.g. 2E21/X1682/45 (issued by 46 RHU) and 2E21/3285/45 (issued by 94 Field Regiment). Again once actioned, his record would be noted with the P2O number and brief details. Hope this helps Steve W
Hope this works just cut and paste from another link. If you want more info on A&S group just do a quick search for "age and service group" in the search box for the site. Just an observation but I would suspect with so many troops being demobed the a, b and c were just to break down each group in to smaller more manageable groups.
3/11/41 he was with the 7th North Staffordshire’s and being posted to the 8th so the 7th informs records and this is written in. Posted to the Battalion 8th N/Staffs regiment. So the 8th acknowledging that they received him, puts this on his record. Officer in charge Records R/NS/Stats No 1 being d/d 23.10.41. Officer in Command Records. Regular (T would have been used if it was a Territorial Regiment.) North Staffordshire’s. Status No 1 being Defence Duties. 23.10.41 8th North Staffordshire battalion. The 8th Battalion was initially raised as a training battalion in 1940 and was assigned to the 205th Independent Infantry Brigade (Home) and was mainly concerned in home defence duties. The 8th Battalion was transferred to the Royal Artillery in March 1942 and converted to the 180th Field Regiment. The regiment served with the 48th Infantry (Reserve) Division in a training role until it was disbanded in August 1944. Which accounts for the next line. Transferred to R.A. and posted to 180 Field Regt R.A. 1/3/42. Army Form D.475 has M.N.I. code 19? M.N.I. Possibly something like Man’s National Information, the code 19 would indicate where the information was stored. Form D 475 seems to be a reservists file card. So in an emergency and he was to be called up again, they would need to know what type of soldier he was. Not much point calling up Infantry men when you required Tank crews.
A/S I found out was age and service group, which didn't make any sense as he was older than 23 when he joined, but it has the entry down as 23 C. Doesn't make any sense to me either. But there it is....
Thanks to the chart posted by Brian Smith. Many thanks to you Brian, and to all who have given invaluable advice!
Hi SG 3 Plus - not sure - seems a standardised category based on copies of other records. O/S (Overseas Service) NIL (as at) 2 Sep 1944 Also back to your initial post and RCG's post #7, M.N.I = Ministry of National Insurance. NB - just amended re SG 3 Plus.
I presume this is on the Registration number form. Column 15. SG 3 PLUS is on my father's form too but I don't know what it means. O/S NIL 2 Sep 1944 possibly means not overseas on that date?? Lesley
Thanks, sjw8 of course that what it is, I was round my mothers this afternoon when it suddenly came to me, must have been around the time you posted it. am I receiving posts when I'm away from my PC. Just checked on pic those cards were printed 1952.
That would make sense. It looks like he went over with the 120 Fd Rg in September 44, and there is nothing indicating any movement, at at Home or abroad, until May 1945. There is a code which indicates he was a POW at some point, which could explain that. But I am still researching that. I do know the 120 Fd Rg was a Light Anti Aircraft regiment, and was guarding the Scheldt Estuary at one point. So, it is possible he was there. But I can find no Part Two Order that says he went to Europe in 1944. So....omission on the part of the O/ic?
Posted to Cadre strength 1st Sep 44. After completing a signals course SG 3 Plus.O/S (Overseas Service) NIL 2 Sep 1944. So my thinking it's Signal Grade 3+, If it's on other soldiers records who have not been trained in signals, could possibly be Service Grade 3+.
Hi I've had a further look at examples of service records posted on the forum. As previously stated, SG appears on a number of records, even non specifically signals trained personnel, so I tend to think that it is some form of a standardised entry, although its exact meaning is unclear. O/S NIL 2 Sep 1944 - this should be treated as an additional entry to the top right hand box (line "G") - as per my dad's records and others. In dad's case the entry reads "1/319 to 2nd Sept 44", which bears no relation to the overseas service he had completed by then (some 682 days in France (BEF), North Africa/Italy and France). Again from looking at other records, these entries all show 2nd Sept, so I assume that some sort of survey was undertaken in the Records Offices to identify soldiers who had not served overseas; perhaps they were looking for reinforcements to be sent to France? Steve W
