Advice please on a personal war story.

Hi Jim - I assume you mean the end of the email about Geoff - here it is: Best, Norma

 

Thanks Norma. That's email pages numbered 1 and 3 that you've kindly posted up. Do you have the email page number 2 that you could post up please? By the looks of it that's the page with the different story/information about Fred.
It would be great if you could post that page (number 2) here in the thread.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Oh b...looks as though I missed page 2 of the email about Geoff (a senior moment) here it is: View attachment 403313

 

My apologies to anyone reading my post re: the very confusing files I tried, unsuccessfully, to upload in the right order. I think I've got the hang of how it works here so hopefully I'll get in right in the future. Best to all who have shown an interest.
Norma

 

Norma dear heart; absolutely no need to apologise. The time and trouble you have gone too, and what you've achieved on your first visits to the forum is excellent. Thank you so very much.

By way of thanks, should you not have seen it before, Medal Application Card from 1949. I think (hope!) you'll recognise the applicants details and hand writing.

Always remember, never forget,

Jim.

 

Hi Norma Hart

Many thanks for posting your emails/letters. I've found them incredibly emotive.

Best wishes.
John

 

Thanks so very much for your kind remarks. I haven't seen these documents before & it makes me think just how much my mum would have loved to have seen them. Sadly, although Fred's marriage ended formally with his death, it had in effect, ended before even though they hadn't been married very long. I don't know the details of the breakdown only that it was something my mum told me. My mum loved Fred & always talked about him. In fact he was talked about at her funeral in 2017, so anything new I learn is very important to me.
On a different note, I'm looking forward to getting my late father's army service records from TNA, hopefully around May, & I shall certainly be using this site to help with my research. Thanks again & best to you, Norma.

 

Thankyou John, that's so very kind of you. My late mum would very much have appreciated your words. Best, Norma

 

Suddenly occurred to me Jim, how did you get these records? You must have (a) genius, or (b) an enormous stack of records??? N x

 

Also Norma, something I would never have expected to find, the last thing I would have expected.

In the short few days that Fred clung to life in the St Elizabeth hospital said hospital changed hands a fair few times in the course of the battle, the last time, when it finally fell under German control, being 19th September '44.

Call it German efficiency, or something, but nigh on immediately on the 19th there was clearly (and given the nature of the battle surprisingly to me) at least one German tasked with recording any non-german soldier patients as prisoners of war.

How so? Well that I think is the only way dear Fred could have a German "POW Card" sitting in our own Natonal Archives at Kew. And, even more surprisingly it has Fred's date of death recorded as 20th September, and not 22nd September as per CWGC.

I can but think that CWGC went by Fred's initial field burial within the grounds of St Elizabeth's Hospital date of 22nd September '44.

Here's the link Fred's card details on The National Archive Website:

Name: [Frederick] Barnett . Date of Birth: [unspecified] . Age: [27]. Place of Birth:... | The National Archives

There appears to be little detail on the card. I guess Fred was not well enough to say much, if anything. It may however be something you want to explore getting a copy of.

And again, thank you so much for posting up page 2 of the email.



Always remember, never forget,

Jim.

 

For the most part Norma from good old books. For things like the medal application card "Fold3" (an America based military genealogy subscription service), and last (and very much least!), experience (though nowadays I've forgotten more than I perhaps ever knew - march of time and all that )

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Well! After all these many years there is something new to learn i.e according to what you say he died 2 days earlier than we knew. I think, in a way, that fits more closely with Geoff's account given he said that Fred was so badly wounded. We had no idea he was classified as a POW & I will certainly look at TNA archive record you sent a link to.

 

As a retired academic Jim - 'good old books' of any kind mean a lot to me! I know what you mean about forgetting more than one ever knew!! Hence my senior moments about uploading documents. God, if we didn't laugh...as for experience - you clearly have a great deal re: army records so thank goodness for you! N x

 

P.s. is that an army uniform I see in your photo?

 

Good on you Norma.

To order a "search" and then a copy of the POW card via the TNA website would unfortunately involve a cost, the way of the more commercial world we live in nowadays.

The other way of course would be via a visit to the archives, an appointment would have to be made, and logistically (time, travel, cost etc) may prove more onerous.

You can read up on what I'd describe as more "regular" POW cards that the archives hold here:

Opening up our prisoner of war collection

Fred's, due to circumstances, may be very different detail wise.

Whatever you decide Norma will be the right thing for you, because most importantly of all it will be what you have decided.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Yes, but not mine, I'm not quite that old

Mine, initially, many moons ago, was cut from a very different cloth, and very much of a different design (pointers to same around the forum, but no spoilers!).

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Will certainly look - hopefully the cost won't be too much of a barrier! N x

 

You might have been in uniform last week!!? Pointers/spoilers I don't 'get'. Probab;y I'm just a bit gormless. N x

 

Those days are thankfully long gone Norma, back when before I knew better

Kind regards, always,

Jim.