Airfield structure identification

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by Kitty, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    This is the only place I can think to post this picture.
    I need some help identifying a 'structure' at RAF Byley/Cranage. It run soff the surroundign coutnry labne with a gate in the perimiter fence. The road in is about 30-40 feet long, and the circle itself is about 30 feet across, with the central area about 10-15 feet. There are no markings in the concrete, as would be expected for a large Ack-ack gun, so does anyone know what it is? There were three dotted around the perimiter of the airfield with no other tracks or buildings apparnetly associated with them.


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor

    It is probably one of the similar shaped things on this map, unfortunately it doesn't say what they are, the look like dispersal areas though.

    [​IMG]
    Bomber Airfield, source on right click.
     
  3. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    If only it were that simple Gnomey. Unfortunately the base of these 'magnifying glasses' is with the perimiter fence with the structure itself pointing just inside the fencing, at least three quarters of a mile from the runways, and half a mile from the dispersal areas. Besides, they just aren't big enough for that. We did wonder at Fuel dumps for the bowsers, but they wouldn't put them at the edge of the airfield where anyone could get at them. Once I can find the map we have I'll scan it in and highlight them.
    After this there are some odd concrete brackets i need identifying.
    Ah well, the quest goes on.
     
  4. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

    Could they be permanent positions for Light Ack-Ack, like 40mm Bofors guns? I mean the mobile guns on a wheeled trailer, with stabilisers which can be screwed down to road level when parked. At the RNAD at Crombie, Fife, there is a wartime metalled track which runs around the northern perimeter of the camp, and we eventually worked out it was for the LAA batteries mentioned in the AA Command weekly disposition reports.
    I can't imagine that there would be an Heavy Ack-Ack battery inside an airfield's perimeter, so Bofors guns are all I can think of.:confused:
     
  5. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    If only it were that simple Gnomey. Unfortunately the base of these 'magnifying glasses' is with the perimiter fence with the structure itself pointing just inside the fencing, at least three quarters of a mile from the runways, and half a mile from the dispersal areas. Besides, they just aren't big enough for that. We did wonder at Fuel dumps for the bowsers, but they wouldn't put them at the edge of the airfield where anyone could get at them. Once I can find the map we have I'll scan it in and highlight them.
    After this there are some odd concrete brackets i need identifying.
    Ah well, the quest goes on.

    Who are you working on with this, or is it your own project?
     
  6. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    I have just spent a while scanning through my copy of the very comprehensive 'Britain's Military Airfields 1939-45 by David J. Smith', and although he does cover much of the airfield installation including runways, lighting, accommodation, training facilities, storage and defences, there is no mention of the 'spy glass' areas shown in the photo.

    The airfield was used as a night fighter base for part of the war. Coud they be sites of some form of night navigation equipment?

    Using a bit of deduction, I would say that they are unsuitable for vehicle or aircraft parking, too small for vehicle or aircraft turning circles and being on the perimeter could point to some form of defensive site.

    Using mobile Bofors would have been logical as it would have meant that they could be moved around or deployed elsewhere whan needed. Hard standing to move into locations and to deliver ammo is a good idea, but it is likely that the guns themselves would be much 'happier' on the soft rather than hard standing, giving the 'spyglass' effect.

    The main question is, if this was all so logical, why weren't more of them built at different airfields, making them more familiar and recognised?

    Is it possible that they are a post war addition? The US ran the airfield from 1945 to 1957 and I'm sure they added things like radar instalations. Again, why aren't similar installations seen at other airfields that were run after the war by the US?
     
  7. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

    Good points. About the Bofors; AA detachments were regularly redeployed (about every six months) either to other sites, or practice camps. HAA sites weren't always manned; some were left empty so that guns could either be resited strategically or reinforcements brought in. I'd imagine it would be the same with LAA; concrete hardstandings would negate the chance of gun trailers being bogged down when ordered to redeploy. The clincher would be ready-ammo lockers under all that scrub we can see.
    Another (very slight!) possibility are "Hedgehog" sites; launchers for four inch rockets, arranged in batteries, and designed to scare the crap out of a Stuka pilot enough to throw his aim off. Only trouble with that is that they were normally set in batteries of 64 (8 x 8) under corrugated iron covers (like a modern free-range pig farm).
    Other than that....no flamin' idea!
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    What's the concrete like inside mate? I've seen pics of wierd emplacements for Northover Projectors and other such odd 'home guard' weapons that didn't seem entirely dissimilar, and I'd want the things as far away from the airfield as possible.
     
  9. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Thinking about it, LAA might be feasible...

    Von T, there is no concrete in the centre of the thing as far as we could tell. It's just bloody strange. Having talked to two of the lads stationed there for part of the war they can't even remember what they were for. Sorry i haven't got a better picture of it, but I had to climb on top of a gate to get that angle.
    However, about 300 yards to the left is one of the pillboxes on the edge of the airfield. The main area of the 'drome (barracks, airraid shelters etc) are beyond the trees at the back of the picture, with the runways beyond them. These were the hated Somerfeld tracking runways, which were sodding hairy seeing as this is where Vickers Wellingtons took off from on test flights from the factory which is slightly to the right of the picture and about 2 miles away.
    As PP has pointed out it was home to a Nightfighter squadron during the Blitz, which then moved out and it was then home to the Central School of Navigation. I believe the factory continued to produce Wimpy's for as long as they were needed.
    I'll find out the map tomorrow and scan in parts of it. And then post it with more photos if anyone wants them. May as well, it has now been bulldozed this week to make way for a gas storage plant on Prescott's say so. Git. :mad:

    Spidge, totally mine and the PO's research. We found it last year when putting together the display for VE Day, and it has kind of grown into an obsession.
     
  10. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Hi Kitty,

    Noticed this guy was asking about Cranage!

    "Tony Harratt" tony.harratt@virgin.net<o:p></o:p>
    Hi, friends, <o:p></o:p>
    I'm researching the history of an RAF station situated near my home here in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">England</st1:place></st1:country-region>.
    The station in question is RAF Cranage (which was also known as RAF Byley)
    which is situated in <st1:City w:st="on">Cheshire</st1:City> south-west of <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Manchester</st1:place></st1:City>.
    One of the units stationed there in 1944 was the USAAF 14th Liaison Squadron
    which operated Stinson L5s.
    I'm wondering if some of you guys could ask around your friends to see if anyone
    served with 14th Liaison Squadron in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">England</st1:place></st1:country-region> in 1944 and was based at Cranage.
    Any snippets of information appreciated
    including photographs, details of aircraft with the unit, serving members
    etc. On a similar tack - I'm also looking at RAF Hixon in Staffordshire
    (just a little south of Cranage). RAF Hixon was used by various DC-3 units
    including 27th Air Transport Group.
    Once again, the request is for any information about this base, too.
    Hixon was very close to Stone and was one of the nearest airfields
    to the Combat Crew Replacement Centre.
    Anyone visit there and care to share memories for a potential book/history?
    Thanks for your indulgence. Anthony Harratt<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
     
  11. Wise1

    Wise1 There We Are Then

    LAA? Possible, but assuming Gnomeys map shows the same thing they all seem at points randomly placed with no real defensive use.
     
  12. adrian roberts

    adrian roberts Senior Member

    Could they have been the turntables for calibrating the aircraft compasses? You needed to align the whole aircraft, not take the compass out, as the metal affected it, and the turnatables would need to be away from metal hangars etc. Three on Kitty's airfield could be a reasonable number for this purpose, but the number on Gnomey's drawing seems a lot - maybe they were different.
    But this is only my wild guess.

    Adrian
     
  13. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    The table tennis bat like features shown on the map are aircraft dispersal points and are not the same as they are very common hard standing circles with access tracks, all in concrete or other 'hard'. They are distributed in a random pattern in order to distribute the aircraft (hence the name!) for their protection.

    The feature we are looking at here has a 'soft' centre, which would make them useless as aircraft dispersals.

    As for the idea of compass calibration turn tables, no mention has been made of any fixtures or fittings in the centre of the circle which would point in that direction, but it is always a possibility.
     
  14. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    This may sound a bit daft, as taking photos of installations was frowned upon but as there are no photos of Raf Cranage to speak of, there may be actual photos of others that could have emerged and may show something similar.

    Just a thought!
     
  15. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Could it possibly have been a "well" of some description? ie something underground?
     
  16. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    I honestly don't know. The centre of the circle was so boggy and full of detritus and weeds (including a very flourishing tree sapling) that we couldn't tell.
    As I say I have an inkling of where the small map is and I'll scan it in today.
     
  17. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Okay, i think I've attached the plans of the airfield. I've also circled the four structures in red. They seem to be around the runways, so probably they are for LAA, but as you can see compared to Gnomey's plans they are somewhat smaller and totally isolated from everything else.
    As to them being found at another airfield I don't know. Cranage seems to be pretty unique with it's own design of airraid shelters and control tower as well. A very odd place.

    View attachment 85

    KEY
    CRANAGE CHESHIRE

    As at February 1945
    53° 13’ N 02° 24’ W

    Runways:
    10/28 3,860 ft
    05/23 3,240 ft
    16/34 3,000ft
    All Sommerfeld tracking on grass

    Hangars:
    A - H Bellmans
    I, J, K, O & P Single Blisters
    L, M & N Double Blisters


    For some reason the Command Centre with it’s adjoining machine gun nest and the airfield pill boxes are not marked.
     
  18. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Double post cos it worked! WOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO! :D :D :D
     
  19. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Right, having looked at the map, and noted the lack of any other form of dispersal and that the runway is Somerfield tracking on grass, here's my theory.

    Somerfield Tracking was notorious for curling at the edges when layed on grass, this being accentuated at points that were heavily loaded. If you decided to place a few dispursal sites around the airfield that had access from metalled roads, they would suffer from damage as the aircraft rolled on and off the matting to access the airfield. Laying a circle of concrete to support the edges of the matting while allowing the matting to cover the centre would be a quick and efficient method of creating an all weather firm area for an aircraft dispersal. Areas of the field could be used for most of the year, but in winter or after heavy rain these could have been used as aircraft dispersals to leave some aircraft ready for scramble. It would also leave the feature seen in the photo.

    Only a theory, but we'd have to find some first hand information as to wheather they were used as dispersals or AA sites.
     
  20. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

    Plant,
    I've just looked at my AM plans of Findo Gask airfield in Perthshire, which also had Sommerfeld Tracking runways. There's nothing remotely like the structures at Cranage, that I can see anyway.
    The aircraft compass at Findo Gask lies on grass between the technical area & the runways, and has no road of any kind leading to it. Am I right in saying that they used metal (steel?) stakes to pin down the matting? I know they used a similar method to fix chicken wire groundplanes around the radar sets on AA gunsites.
     

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