Airfield structure identification

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by Kitty, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Taken from "Britain's Military airfields 1939-45 - David J. Smith":-

    To remedy this lack of satisfactory surface meduim, Kurt Sommerfeld, an expatriate Austrian engineer, adapted the First World War wire-netting idea. The result was known as Sommerfeld Track and a full-scale trial carried out by Royal Engineers early in 1941 proved sufficiently encouraging to justify it being put into production.

    Mild Steel bars and rods were employed to hold the netting rigid and angle Iron pickets kept it on the ground

    The book also notes that:-

    Some permanent grass airfields were given PSP* runways when supplies allowed. Cranage in Cheshire had two exellent runways of the material to replace the worn out Army Track which it's Navigation School Ansons and Oxfords had suffered for years. Photographs exist showing how the plates were neatly cut and welded at the runway intersection and they even had cut-outs for light fittings.

    There are no photos of this in the book and it doesn't state when the improvments were made, and PSP was developed in the US prior to their entry into the war, which does leave quite an open time line.

    *PSP is Pierced Steel Plank although that may either be the american or original name as I have always been taught that it stands for Perforated Steel Planking. Either way it's very much the same and does the same thing. It was still being used heavily for airfield repair into the 70s and was replaced by the Americans by AM-2 matting during the Vietnam war, which is now also used by the Royal Engineers. (Oooops, there I go.... off on that never ending subject of matting, trackway, R&A and bridging...... sorry :( )
     
  2. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    This is the only place I can think to post this picture.
    I need some help identifying a 'structure' at RAF Byley/Cranage. It run soff the surroundign coutnry labne with a gate in the perimiter fence. The road in is about 30-40 feet long, and the circle itself is about 30 feet across, with the central area about 10-15 feet. There are no markings in the concrete, as would be expected for a large Ack-ack gun, so does anyone know what it is? There were three dotted around the perimiter of the airfield with no other tracks or buildings apparnetly associated with them.


    [​IMG]

    Aircraft compass swinging platform?
     
  3. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Aircraft compass swinging platform?
    We've had that one. PP, a very good idea, but Cranage is a very, and I mean VERY boggy place. Aircraft were never taken off the hard standings or Sommereld cos they would never get them out again. I admit to leaning towards the LAA idea myself, as the roads they come off are just very narrow country lanes. No way is there room for planes to get to them that way.
    At the bottom of the map wher there is a curve of tracking running to the runways is where the Wimpies were driven across from the factory for their circuits and bumps before delivery.
    As to the Sommerfeld I seem to recall mention of it being put in at the earliest as the Ansons/Oxfords were having difficulty landing. So probably very early 42 if not 41?
    This is really beginning to annoy me.


    Also does anyone know what these were used for? There are loads of them dotted around the barracks area.

    View attachment 86

    The remaining huts around the back of the Vickers site. They are seriously dinky. :D

    View attachment 87

    And finally the Vickers factory itself. All that has been done to it is the skin replaced. As you can tell from the wagon it is HUGE.

    View attachment 88
     
  4. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

    Kitty,
    I don't know what the blocks are, unless they're for generators.
    The huts look like variations of "Handcraft" huts, which themselves were a variation of Nissen huts. They were probably just accommodation, but were very adaptable.
    Have you tried contacting the Airfield Research Group with regard to the hardstandings?
     
  5. adrian roberts

    adrian roberts Senior Member

    Attached, a photo of a compass-swinging platform in use.
    OK, there is no road leading to this one, but the proportions of the concrete ring make it look a possibility.

    This is probably a pre-war photo: the Spitfire is a very early Mark 1: note two-bladed propellor, no red-white-blue fin-flash, and K prefix serial.

    Adrian
     
  6. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    The map shows 4 of these features. Would there be a need for 4 compass-swinging platforms on one airfield? Maybe because of it's role as a navigation school? But if that were the case, would these platforms be large enough to take an Anson or Oxford? Certainly not a Wellington in order to calibrate the compass on production. And why are they connected to the small tracks by concrete roads rather than other tracking for movement of aircraft? Still points to LAA as an option, but doesn't a battery of AA have 6 guns, not 4? Did the other two have different locations on the other side of the airfield beyond the Hangers and acommodation?

    So many questions. It may just be easier to find someone local who used to work ther during the war and ask them ;)
     
  7. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

    A strange one...
    An HAA battery could have either 4 or 6 guns, PP, but LAA was sited to protect "Vulnerable Points" (VPs), so there could be as many as deemed necessary for a particular application. Still might be something else entirely, though........:confused:
     
  8. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    A strange one...
    An HAA battery could have either 4 or 6 guns, PP, but LAA was sited to protect "Vulnerable Points" (VPs), so there could be as many as deemed necessary for a particular application. Still might be something else entirely, though........:confused:

    Had a look at the History of the RAF regiment and I could find no pictures of guns being in hardened positions
     
  9. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    It's certainly odd isn't it? I understand there were some guns at the Wellington factory next door, and then they would also have been protected by the HAA at Crewe. A few miles away is the airfield's Q-Station site, so maybe it was deemed only a few LAA for protection.
    As to asking people who lived and worked there, we've asked the few we know and nobody can seem to recall what they were for, and tracking down people who actually served there is an impossibility so far.
    This is beginning to get on my nerves. :mad:
     
  10. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

    Any more news on this, Kitty?
     
  11. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Nothing. Just don't know who to ask next. Unfortunately back ay Uni soon so it's going on the back burner for another 6 months. :mad:
     
  12. lancesergeant

    lancesergeant Senior Member

    Not the place to put this question, but it is the nearest to the subject.

    Grass runways -how did they get the runways flat enough so that minor bumps, holes didn't snag the undercarriage. Knowing a two plus ton aircraft travelling on a thin undercarriage, any minor hole hollow would snag the aircraft and cause to crash. How did they make them level in the circumstances. Perhaps one for Spidge, Morse or Sapper..
     
  13. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Not my area however I believe many airstrips were grassed on a base of prefabricated steel or similar ground plate.
     
  14. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Ah ha! Something I can help with! Early grass runways were apparently evil. Reading on some of the ATA girl's encounters with them before Sommerfeld tracking came in (which was a metal grid that was laid down in the ground) they loatehd them. They would be covered in bumps, hollows, badly filled bomb craters, nails, rubble and anything else laid down as hardcore. Tyres were being constantly shredded on landing.
    The runways were 'made' by workemen with rollers. Hardcore was laid, and then the grass over the top. As already mentioned everything was used as harcore, including building rubble. And think what a sharp edged brick can do to a tyre....
    Even with the advent of Summerfeld tracking (think of that plastic gridding on car parks these days) Only light aircraft could use it, as the weight of a heavy bomber landing on it caused the tyres to be shredded byt he runway, and so tarmac/concrete runways became mandatory for heavy bombers. Though I do know Manchesters were landed on Cranage's Summerfeld tracking when being tested.
    So as to lumps and bumps, they basically stayed in them and the pilots learned how to land at their respective fields. Usually roughly.
    Hope this helps. And I'l stop rambling now.
     
  15. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    And yet they seem to much prefer landing the classic fighters on grass these days as it's described as much kinder to the undercarriage and more forgiving of slight skids on landing. I assume the 'lawn' at Duxford is of a far higher quality than the hundreds thrown up in wartime though.
     
  16. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    If a grass runway is prepared correctly and looked after it is as good if not better for the type of aircraft around at the time.

    The airfield would have been prepared by leveling with a fleet of dozers then compacted using heavy rollers which also made the surface smooth and weight bearing. In areas of bad drainage, hardcore was layed as an aid to water dissipation and to prevent puddling then being covered in a reasonable covering of soil, tamped and compacted with rollers before grass was laid over the top. The grass acted as binding to hold the surface together.

    Bomb damage would have been repaired by digging out the loose soil and being filled in layers, each of which would be tamped down before the next layer was added. The surface would be rolled and grass laid on top as with a new runway. The trouble with the repair was that it had to be done quickly in order to prevent accidents with other aircraft. For this reason hardcore, of whatever was available, was used and probably not tamped as thouroughly as it could have been. The grass seed laid on the surface would have taken it's time to do it's thing leaving the area of the repair prone to damage and allowing the surface to wear quicker than the surrounding area. If left, this could mean the surface soil being worn or blown away leaving the harcore to do damage to tyres.

    Grass also hides the bits of aircraft, metal, nuts and bolts that drop off aircrat or are thrown around during a crash, bad landing etc. These bits which would be much easier to find on a concrete runway also cause damage to tyres.

    Not that I'd know anything about this sort of thing at all ;) , but the Royal Engineers still learn how to make runways in the middle of nowwhere :)
     
  17. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Bow before the master. :D
     
  18. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Save your bows, I'm no master. Just one of them 'Jack of all trades'.
     
  19. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    Save your bows, I'm no master. Just one of them 'Jack of all trades'.

    Go on admit it! You asked one of the airfield construction blokes you met in the Naafi!
     
  20. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Go on admit it! You asked one of the airfield construction blokes you met in the Naafi!

    Contacts! We are the winners.
     

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