Allied POW Liberations Before 11 April 1945

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Buffnut453, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. Buffnut453

    Buffnut453 Member

    My cousin, Francis Lee, was captured at the battle of Den Bosch in October 1944. He was repatriated on 11 April 1945 but died of malnutrition at an American Army hospital near Swindon. Unfortunately, there's no record of which POW camp(s) he incarcerated in, nor how he returned to the UK so early when most POW liberations didn't really start until the end of April.

    Given my cousin's medical situation, I find it hard to believe he would be taken by sea...and if he was, I'd expect him to be admitted to a hospital on the south/southeast coast rather than imposing yet further travel to Wiltshire. I therefore suspect he was airlifted back to the UK from the continent...but this is just a guess.

    In an added twist, I recently found a newspaper article covering his funeral. It identifies his pallbearers as military personnel who were with him in his convoy and who came from his home town, St.Helens in Lancashire:
    LCpl Ridings (KORR)
    Gdsm McGough (Scots Guards)
    Pte Ashcroft (RAMC)
    Gnr Tatlock (RA)
    Pte Edwards (KORR)
    WO Canning (RAF)

    Similar to my cousin, I can find no POW camp info for Ridings, McGough, Ashcroft or Tatlock, and there's no guarantee that the details I can find for Edwards and Canning relate to the pallbearers. I'm intrigued to know how these 6 servicemen arrived back in the UK so early. According to the newspaper article, Francis Lee was liberated by US Army forces.

    Does ANYBODY have any suggestions for how I might discover where my cousin might have been incarcerated or how he arrived back in the UK so early in the liberation process? I'd truly appreciate any steers or ideas on either front.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
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  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    To ensure we have the right man - is this him

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Francis Lee
    Given Initials: F
    Rank: Private
    Death Date: 11 Apr 1945
    Number: 3774896
    Birth Place: St. Helens
    Residence: St. Helens
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: Western Europe Campaign, 1944/45
    Regiment at Death: Welch Regiment
    Branch at Death: Infantry

    You are right in that it appears his details were not fully completed, but he was there long enough to be recorded
    UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
    Name: F Lee
    Rank: Private
    Army Number: 3774896
    Regiment: Welsh Regiment
    Record Office: Infantry Record Office, Exeter
    Record Office Number: 22

    Re the pall bearers there are several Cannings (RAF) who were WO or Warrant Officers - I will see if I can find the others later

    TD
     
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  3. Blutto

    Blutto Banned

    The following link has a a paragraph titled RAF Oakley which might be interest due to its Oxfordshire location:
    Footprints on the Sands of Time

    There is also evidence in the attached link of US activity attempting to repatriate POWs from Poland around that period. Perhaps your chap had been in Poland?

    https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjo1KDQyorYAhVBObwKHfQnDEcQFghJMAk&url=http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/tfrussia/tfrhtml/tfr001-1.html&usg=AOvVaw10JVT4YUOFA7Q-zbfF_Mra
     
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  4. Buffnut453

    Buffnut453 Member

    Hi TD,

    Yes, that's him. He went ashore on D-Day as a member of the 5th Bn King's Regt trained as one of the Beach Protection Parties. Once that role was completed, he was posted to 32 Reinforcement Holding Unit on 28 Aug 1944 before joining the 1/5th Welch Regt on 15 Sep 1944. He went missing in s'Hertogenbosch on 24 Oct 1944 and was identified as a POW on 1 Nov 1944.

    I appreciate your reviewing of the RAF Cannings. I'm hoping someone somewhere knows how these men came to be together, and how they made it back to Blighty.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  5. Buffnut453

    Buffnut453 Member

    Thanks for the links Blutto. It looks like I need to get hold of "Footprints on the Sands of Time". It certainly seems that prisoners were being repatriated by air around the time my cousin came home. I suppose it's possible he was liberated by Soviet forces but repatriated by the US Army, and that the newspaper got the story wrong.
     
  6. Buffnut453

    Buffnut453 Member

    I have discovered that Stalag XIII-C, near Hammelburg, was liberated by US forces on 6 Apr 1945. I'm continuing to search for other POW camps that were liberated around the same time.
     
  7. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Have you contacted Red Cross for a copy of his POW records held there?

    If not here is link -

    Requests for information about people held during the Spanish Civil War or the Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

    Closed until 15th January. You’ll have to check the link on that day when online application form will be shown. If past windows are anything to go by you will have to submit application quickly as window will close after 72 or 96 hours. It’s a free service. Takes about 2 to 3 months to get a reply. You don’t get an email acknowledgement that ICRC has received the application (which is slightly annoying!).

    Good Luck

    Steve

    PS

    You could also submit freedom of information request to National Archives for a copy of his German POW Index Card which will record his POW movements. They were seized by Allies in 1945.
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
    Name: D T Edwards
    Rank: Private
    Army Number: 4079535
    Regiment: King's Own Royal Regiment
    POW Number: 155984
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: XVII-B
    Camp Location: Gneixendorf, Austria
    Record Office: Infantry Record Office, The Public Hall, Lune Street, Preston, Lancashire
    Record Office Number: 18

    If the man above was one of the pall bearers then the Austrian, camps were moved West before the Russians arrived in Mid April 1945. They were probably liberated by Amercians and I would guess flown back to the UK from West Austria or even France. That could explain the reason he was in an Amercian Hospital.

    TD
     
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  9. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi TD,

    My late father was in a 17B work camp just north of Vienna. They were marched out late March/early April and his column ended up being abandoned by their guards in the Sudetenland in late April and after fending for themselves for a few days were found by elements of Patton’s 3rd American Army. He was back in UK 12th May.

    Steve
     
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  10. Buffnut453

    Buffnut453 Member

    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for the ideas. I tried the Red Cross several years ago and got a negative response but the answer seemed a little confused (I suspect they mixed up Francis' name with that of his brother, Samuel, who gave permission for me to obtain any relevant records). I'll try again on 15 Jan in hopes of better luck this time.

    The German POW Index Card source is new to me. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely give that a try.

    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  11. Buffnut453

    Buffnut453 Member

    Thanks TD. That gives me another avenue to pursue. I'll do some digging into the timeline for Stalag XVII-B.

    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  12. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

  13. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Have a look at the last couple of posts in this topic to see how to go about requesting a FOI enquiry.

    You need to look at TNA file WO 416 (in screen print) and find out the subset which covers his surname.

    Steve

    Identity cards?
     
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  14. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Dave,

    Thanks for that. I see mention on P11 of PDF that British POW’s were supposed to hand in American issue uniform and kit following issue of new British Army kit on arrival in UK. That rule must not have been strictly enforced as my Dad spoke of wearing his American issue kit during the cold British winter of 1946/47. I used the eating utensils and sleeping bag during UK camping trips in the early 1970’s.

    Hope all’s well with you and that you have a good Christmas. All the best for 2018.

    Steve
     
  15. Buffnut453

    Buffnut453 Member

    Thanks Steve. I've already submitted my FOI request. Set up a quick chat session with a friendly helper at Kew and was linked straight to the correct record set for Frank's surname. Hopefully something will come up from this query.
     
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  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Buffnut

    Seems you have quite a bit of research to do:

    The Yanks are coming... | Swindon History | SwindonWeb!...

    120th Station Hospital | WW2 US Medical Research Centre
    A group of Officers and Enlisted Men were sent to establish Headquarters at Pinkney Park, Wilts., England. Colonel Joseph Haas, several Medical Officers, 15 Enlisted Men, and all the Nurses proceeded to Swindon, Wilts., England, where the Nurses’ Provisional Battalion was to be organized, with Colonel J. Haas, commanding, in addition to his commanding the 120th Station Hospital.

    TD
     
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  17. Buffnut453

    Buffnut453 Member

    I certainly do, TD, I certainly do!

    Part of my frustration is that I meet roadblocks at every turn. Your post prompted yet another. Frank died at the 130th Station Hospital located at Chisledon, Wilts. Alas, there's no history recorded for that unit on the website link you provided.

    Other than locating another survivor's account describing how he got to England in early April 1945, my last real hope (I think) would be to find Frank's German POW index card.
     
  18. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    The 130th Station Hospital was located near Camp Lucky Strike, near Le Havre. Thousand of repatriated POWs came through this place.

    History here (Chisleden plays a part):

    USAREUR Units & Kasernes, 1945 - 1989

    Dave
     
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  19. Buffnut453

    Buffnut453 Member

    Thanks Dave. From what I've been able to discover the 130th Station Hospital was based near Swindon until May 1945 at which point it was disbanded, presumably to be reformed at Le Havre per the link you provided. Clearly my relative's arrival at the 130th occurred before the unit moved to the continent.

    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  20. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
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