Arms to the French Resistance

I wonder if anyone can explain why Louis Lavallee is recorded as having a variety of ranks in different reports; Sergeant, Flight Sergeant and even Flying Officer in others I’ve seen. Is it possible he was awarded a posthumous commission?

 

That's a very interesting document covering the ops of the three aircraft...pity that the handwriting of the squadron adjutant's clerk who probably would have written up the ORB could be better....but there's an abundance of information there.

Louis Max Lavallee is recorded as holding the commissioned rank of Pilot Officer in the CWGC Register. He must have had his commissioning interview prior to being killed and probably was not aware that he had been commissioned. He is referred to as a Sgt in the operations report which is probably an error in transcribing his rank from the ORB detail.

The ORB records his rank as F/S on that fateful op where he lost his life. I would think that this is an example of rank progression taking place while the airman continued with operations.

 

Thank you Harry, that makes more sense than my suggestion. Letters my grandfather sent and received as a POW, show he was promoted from Sergeant to Fligjht Sergeant in January, then Warrant Officer in March "45.
On the topic of POW camps and his escape in April 45, I'm finding it tricky to reconcile camp names and numbers with their locations.
Could you direct me to the most appropriate forum?

 

By way of example, this is his pow identity tag. The last camp he was sent to before it was evacuated was at Fallinbosten. His private letters are addressed to Stalag 3 (357), but his tags are stamped stalag xi-c. From what I can make out it should be xi-D or B. From my research, I was shocked to find Bergen Belsen concentration camp as Stalag XI-C!!!!!

 

Stephen.

That's correct regarding RAF promotions while a POW. Commissioned officers went through promotion stages up F/L in accordance with the regulation. I am aware of a F/S who after a successful raid on Turin, landed on a Finistere airfield short of fuel and and under fierce fire from the Germans manning the airfield defences...no crew casualties. He had attended a commissioning interview some time before the op and learnt shortly after capture, he had been commissioned as a P/O which split him from the rest of his NCO crew in captivity... the Stalag Luft camps run under the control of the Luftwaffe.

For those POW aircrew in non commissioned ranks (and that includes those who held aircrew status at AC2,AC1and LAC classification before May/June 1940 when the minimum rank became Sgt) followed the rank progression as your Grandfather....F/S, then Warrant Officer.

I am aware again of a prewar regular who was a Corporal Air Gunner on Hampdens which landed short of fuel in Germany when the gyro compass failed...thought they were in Scotland. He too went through the same progression as a POW, first as Sgt as the minimum rank for aircrew, then F/S and was liberated as a Warrant Officer

What were the POW camps that your Grandfather was held in? perhaps the forum could be of some assistance. I would think that there is a good account of your Grandfather's escape to relate as the Third Reich crumbled.

According to W Chorley's 1943 Bomber Command Losses of The Second World War, as a POW, Sgt E A Allen was held at Camp 4B (Stalag Muhlberg-Elbe) where it appears he may have died. Your Grandfather was held at No 357(Stalag Kopernikus) according to the publication.

 

Just picked up your post. Stalag 1XC was at Muhlhausen.

Bergen Belsen was never used for Western prisoners although it was used initially, before it became a concentration camp as a POW camp for Russians. Fallingbostel is about 15 miles to the north west from Bergen Belsen.

Fallingbostel was the camp that the Germans herded POWs to in forced marches from the East in an attempt to prevent POWs being liberated by the Russians. There were POW deaths on the forced marches due to brutal treatment of the guards and friendly fire from Allied fighter aircraft thinking that the columns were the enemy.

 

UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
Name: S F Hathaway
Rank: Flight Sergeant
Army Number: 1338742
Regiment: Royal Air Force : Officers & Other Ranks
POW Number: 43261
Camp Type: Stalag
Camp Number: 357
Camp Location: Kopernikus, Poland
Section: Royal Air Force : Officers & Other Ranks

Stalag XIB / 357 Fallingbostel POW camp

I believe the details above are from the last Red Cross inspections of German POW camps and as such was probably in late 1944

TD

 

UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
Name: E A Allen
Rank: Flight Sergeant
Army Number: 1320921
Regiment: Royal Air Force : Officers & Other Ranks
POW Number: 261238
Camp Type: Stalag
Camp Number: 4B
Camp Location: Muhlberg (Elbe), Germany
Section: Royal Air Force : Officers & Other Ranks

TD

 

Hello Stephen, I'm sure you've deciphered the POW ID by now, but just on the small chance it's passed you by the "IXC" relates to the hospital at Obermasfeld (as listed in the liberation report).
The tag would have been issued there as the first German location that your grandfather was imprisoned in (and his injuries treated in) after his initial treatment in France.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

There is no mention of stalag IX.C, the dates are inconsistent and the last date line difficult to understand when you consider the camp was evacuated on the 7th April 1944 at midday and escaped the column same day at 1930hrs. I think he was picked up on the 10th by 7th armoured Brigade.
I wonder if he was returned to the camp, maybe used as a holding area, pending his return home on 30th April 1945?
I also wonder where he and other pow’s from Fallingbostel was flown home from.

 

Ahhhh yes! Thank you!

 

Please excuse dodgy underlining Stephen (old chaps sausage size fingers on old small phone screen!)

Here's the IXC reference from your grandfather's papers.



Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Given the extent of your grandfather's injuries his months at Obermasfeld are understandable.

I'll dig out some stuff about Obermasfeld for you (I know it's come up on WW2 Talk before).

Good luck with all your searching,

Jim.

 

This will be one worth a look in Stephen (once some sort of normality has returned access wise)

Prisoners of war, Germany: Stalag IXC, Obermassfeld; hospital admission lists; reports... | The National Archives

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Stephen. While the questionnaire is very interesting there appears to be something amiss with the Fallingbostel camp dates.

Heydekrug POW camp was established from September 1943 and the dates there fit into the state of the Eastern Front situation, it being located on the East Prussia eastern border with Lithuania.W/O Hathaway was sent here after being discharged from hospital.

Thorn from the dates entered. W/O Hathaway was moved from Heydekrug here on 15/7/44 which may be associated with the Russian advance westwards . Thorn, designated as POW Camp XXA but called previously Kopernikus (357) is situated in central Poland on the west bank of the Vistula downstream from Warsaw and again the probable reason was the general withdrawal of German forces in the wake of the Russian advance. W/O Hathaway was then moved to Fallingbostel on 12/8/44 and I would say he was imprisoned there until liberated on 26/4/45.

Note W/O Hathaway was not subject to work mandatory work. NCOs according to the Geneva Convention could not be forced to work unless it was on a voluntary basis...many did as a means of building up alliances to further escaping.

Interesting to note from the Questionnaire that W/O Hathaway was helped to get as far as Blois in a injured state before he was captured. Blois is quite a distance from the crash site at Montlucon. It may be due to his injuries it was thought that he would receive prompt medical treatment as a POW..but

However from RAF Evaders by Oliver Clutton- Brock it is recorded that a resistance woman stayed with the injured W/O Hathaway at the crash site until a gendarme arrived to take him to Montlucon. From here, he was taken to the Luftwaffe hospital at Clermond Ferrand and on his recovery sent to Germany where it would appear his POW camp was Heydekrug, beyond Konigsberg in East Prussia. The publication gives a very good account of the Halifax evaders but nothing about the fate of Sgt E A Allen who it is recorded elsewhere, died as a POW.

Repatriations of liberated POWs started as soon as the repatriation system was set up and got into full stride after the German surrender. RAF aircraft flew from a number of captured airfields depending on availability to airfields north and south of London, Wing in Buckinghamshire was a main centre for returning POWs and a special unit was set up to accommodate returning POWs. I would think that in this area of NW Europe, Brussels would have been one of the first airfields to be used since the airfield and facilities would have been in a favourable state, being in the Allies hands for some time.

The problem tracing Sgt E A Allen's fate is that it would appear that his POW number is the same number as issued to a Sgt D E Davis. It would appear that Sgt D E Davis is not listed in the 1943 intake of aircrew POWs.

Looking further, Sgt E A Allen (not recorded on the CWGC Register) is not listed on Martin Edwards's Tempsford Roll of Honour which is very comprehensive but does list F/S L M Lavallee, referencing the loss of the Halifax.

 

Well Stephen, I hope the link (below) works for you. "Harry Ree" has already mentioned the book previously in the thread.

If the link does indeed work it will drop you in at page 160 of "Footprints on the Sands of Time", and twixt there and page 168 it effectively gives you a complete chapter and verse on the IXc hospital at Obermassfeld from a RAF perspective (please note, there is some hard reading amongst it). It was an eye opener for me as my only knowledge of the place was from Airborne folks who had passed through there.

Here's the link:

Footprints on the Sands of Time

Kind regards, always,

Jim.