Battle of Britain (New Facts?)

One of the most successful combat sorties during the battle was on August 18th 1940. Whilst leading the Me109’s of JG 26 in a raid over England, Schopfel attacked a flight of Hurricanes from No: 501 Squadron, based at Gravesend, while they were flying in formation over Canterbury, Kent.
During the dogfight he shot down four of the Hurricanes in less than 5 minutes of aerial combat. The first two Hurricanes destroyed were flown by Pilot Officer Koslowski who baled out injured and Pilot Officer Bland who was killed instantly. Schopfel’s next victim was Sergeant Pilot Mckay who managed to bale out injured from his burning Hurricane before it hit the ground near Whitstable, Kent. The fourth Hurricane to be shot down was flown by Pilot Officer Ken “Hawkeye” Lee, already an accomplished pilot and veteran of the Battle of France. Lee was shot in the leg but managed to safely bale out and landed near a golf course where he enjoyed a brandy whilst waiting for an ambulance to arrive.

 

The Hurricane squadrons did suffer very badly from the 109s during those last two weeks of August.

The actions are memorably described by Sqn Ldr Tom Gleave of 253 Squadron at Kenley, both in his anonymous memoir 'I Had A Row With A German' and in Peter Townsend's later book.

Gleave was shot down in flames on August 31st and was horribly burned. His wife came to visit him in hospital and turned pale when she saw him, saying 'Darling - what have you been up to ?'

'Had a row with a German' replied Gleave.

It's easy to laugh at 'stiff upper lip' today, but people really were like that, then.

( Incidentally, the engine of Gleave's Hurricane was found lying above surface in the 1960s and can be seen today in the Battle of Britain exhibit at Duxford ).

 

The Hurricane squadrons did suffer very badly from the 109s during those last two weeks of August.
It's easy to laugh at 'stiff upper lip' today, but people really were like that, then.


It's a very different world now. Not sure if it's a better world either.

 

War hero's send-off for 'Hawkeye' - The Star

 

18 August 1940.

Re - the above mentioned airmen.

P/O. K N T. Lee. (Wounded)
501 Squadron.
Hurricane I P3059. 'D'
Shot down over Canterbury by Me109 of JG26.

P/O. F. Kozlowski (Wounded)
501 Squadron.
Hurricane I P3815.
Shot down over Canterbury by Me109 of JG26.

Sgt. D A S. McKay (Injured)
501 Squadron.
Hurricane I N2617.
Shot down over Canterbury by Me109 of JG26.

P/O. J W. Bland (Killed)
501 Squadron.
Hurricane P3208. 'T'
Shot down over Canterbury by Me109 of JG26.


31 August 1940.

S/L. T P. Gleave. (Wounded)
253 Squadron.
Hurricane I P3115.
Baled out and badly burned during attack on Ju88 over Cudham, Kent.

'RAF Fighter Command Losses' Vol 1 - Franks.

 

18 August 1940.

Re - the above mentioned airmen.

P/O. K N T. Lee. (Wounded)
501 Squadron.
Hurricane I P3059. 'D'
Shot down over Canterbury by Me109 of JG26.

P/O. F. Kozlowski (Wounded)
501 Squadron.
Hurricane I P3815.
Shot down over Canterbury by Me109 of JG26.

Sgt. D A S. McKay (Injured)
501 Squadron.
Hurricane I N2617.
Shot down over Canterbury by Me109 of JG26.

P/O. J W. Bland (Killed)
501 Squadron.
Hurricane P3208. 'T'
Shot down over Canterbury by Me109 of JG26.


31 August 1940.

S/L. T P. Gleave. (Wounded)
253 Squadron.
Hurricane I P3115.
Baled out and badly burned during attack on Ju88 over Cudham, Kent.

'RAF Fighter Command Losses' Vol 1 - Franks.

Thanks Peter.

 

Battle of Britain - Frank Carey

Does anybody know a story that Frank Carey whilst attacking an He 111 was himself being attacked by a Me109. Carey said that the 109 missed and the cannon shells went past and shot down the He 111 right in front of him!!!! Carey said that he shouldn't have claimed the kill as he didn't shoot the 111 down!
Fantastic if true.

 

quote=Peter Clare;131268]18 August 1940.

Re - the above mentioned airmen.




Sgt. D A S. McKay (Injured)
501 Squadron.
Hurricane I N2617.
Shot down over Canterbury by Me109 of JG26.



31 August 1940.

.

'RAF Fighter Command Losses' Vol 1 - Franks.[/quote]

Dont know if anyones interested but,I was guided to this site while doing a search for this chap! My Uncle well,my Grandfathers older Brother..
Just to add,he recovered from those wounds,went on to serve throughout the war in various locations and through the postcards he sent to my Grandad at the time I have a smashing collection of nostalgia from cards sent all round Africa to the postcard he sent as a young lad thrilling at his first pleasure flight and insisting he wanted to be a Pilot.
Not sure how to post pics yet or Id have shared a nice one of him with a "bagged" One oh nine....
(ps,coincidence Im sure but,I dated a girl with the last name kozlowski(a) a few years ago too )

 

Dont know if anyones interested but,I was guided to this site while doing a search for this chap! My Uncle well,my Grandfathers older Brother..
Just to add,he recovered from those wounds,went on to serve throughout the war in various locations and through the postcards he sent to my Grandad at the time I have a smashing collection of nostalgia from cards sent all round Africa to the postcard he sent as a young lad thrilling at his first pleasure flight and insisting he wanted to be a Pilot.
Not sure how to post pics yet or Id have shared a nice one of him with a "bagged" One oh nine....
(ps,coincidence Im sure but,I dated a girl with the last name kozlowski(a) a few years ago too )

View attachment 8189 [/quote]

Hey, fantastic picture. Have you anymore info? Like posting the postcards or a log book, that would be great.

 

Unfortunatly no one in the family can trace the log book/s. He sadly passed away in the 1950s so Ive a feeling that along with much else is lost to time/sitting in someones private collection gathering dust.
I havent got round to scanning the postcards onto my pc yet but when I do I will try and,techno phobic as I am,develope a little web space.
All in all Ive got hundreds of images to scan.As well as those dealing with my Uncles Ive got all my Grandfathers many photos from his time with 264 sqdrn as a WT fitter,stuff from preddanack ,thru Normandy and victory celebration stuff from Amsterdam in 45.
So,a long job

( Oh,and I dont brisstle at him appearing here to get shot down like a newbi ,he ended the war with 18/19 confirmed and a handfull of probables and damaged)

 

Re the "Jaguar" Bf 162 spottings...this was a case of misidentification. Only three prototypes were built - D-AXAI, D-AOBE and D-AOVI (civil registrations as never taken on charge I believe) - and three other prototypes of a BF161 recce-bomber type...but both lost out to the Ju88 schnellbomber. The only difference even possibly identifiable from the ground would have been the widened nose and fuselage! otherwise the planform was identical in silhouette against the sky. But IIRC aircraft identification material issued in 1940 listed it as a current service aircraft, leading to subsequent misidentification. A similar situation pertained with the Heinkel He112/113 fighter that the Luftwaffe was using in great numbers...according to official aircraft recognition guides as late as 1941!!!

 

I'm very interested in the Battle of Britain. Are there any facts or myths that people think I might not know that would be of interest. Maybe we could all learn something along the way.
For instance- At Kenley there was a parachute and cable system in place for low flying enemy aircraft, first used on 18th August 1940. This device comprised of a 480 foot length of steel cable carried 600 feet high by a rocket, at the top of the trajectory the cable was released, a parachute opened and suspended the cable hopefully in the path of an aircraft. If the latter struck the cable a second parachute opened at the bottom of the line and the unfortunate aircraft was left towing away the contraption. With the drag factor there was a good chance that the aircraft would crash out of control. The launchers were placed at 60 foot intervals, fired in salvoes of nine or more.


Funny you mentioning them Gage.....They get a mention in the Battle of Britain Forgotten Voices I'm reading.

Since you have a big interest in BoB have you been here?
Kent Battle of Britain Museum, Hawkinge. Welcome to the web-site of the Kent Battle of Britain Museum
I've been twice now and its full of facts and loads of aircraft that got shot down etc etc etc.

 

The airfield defence cable system - see " The Hardest day" by Alfred price - he describes the Ventnor radar being put out and the low level raid by the DO-17's in some depth.
A very good read.

 

Gage I take it you are aware of these too ?

 

Re the "Jaguar" Bf 162 spottings...this was a case of misidentification. Only three prototypes were built - D-AXAI, D-AOBE and D-AOVI (civil registrations as never taken on charge I believe) - and three other prototypes of a BF161 recce-bomber type...but both lost out to the Ju88 schnellbomber. The only difference even possibly identifiable from the ground would have been the widened nose and fuselage! otherwise the planform was identical in silhouette against the sky. But IIRC aircraft identification material issued in 1940 listed it as a current service aircraft, leading to subsequent misidentification. A similar situation pertained with the Heinkel He112/113 fighter that the Luftwaffe was using in great numbers...according to official aircraft recognition guides as late as 1941!!!

Thank you, some good info there. Will have to dig deeper.
Be interesting to know where the nickname 'Snapper' comes from for the Me109 from some RAF pilots.

Since you have a big interest in BoB have you been here?
Kent Battle of Britain Museum, Hawkinge. Welcome to the web-site of the Kent Battle of Britain Museum
I've been twice now and its full of facts and loads of aircraft that got shot down etc etc etc.

No, never been but would love to go at some point. Thanks for website.

The airfield defence cable system - see " The Hardest day" by Alfred price - he describes the Ventnor radar being put out and the low level raid by the DO-17's in some depth.
A very good read.

I think one of the best books written on the Battle, James.

 

Gage I take it you are aware of these too ?


Something tells me I saw a programme on these but for the life of me I can't remember where or when.
Was it something to do with sound detection?!

 

Yes, it looks like a "sound mirror". IIRC through the 1930s the RAF experimented with a number of different lens shapes to focus soundwaves from approaching aircraft for detection - but radar came along and promised (and delivered) so much more. Remembering the first series of "Coast" there's a number of VERY large concrete "forms" around the coastline, and are likely to prove rather...longlasting LOL

This is one of the smaller, "service" ones. The ROC used input from them and inland listening posts - they HAD to - once incoming raids had passed the outward-facing Chain Home/Chain Home Low line.

 

Re the "Jaguar" Bf 162 spottings...this was a case of misidentification. Only three prototypes were built - D-AXAI, D-AOBE and D-AOVI (civil registrations as never taken on charge I believe) - and three other prototypes of a BF161 recce-bomber type...but both lost out to the Ju88 schnellbomber. The only difference even possibly identifiable from the ground would have been the widened nose and fuselage! otherwise the planform was identical in silhouette against the sky. But IIRC aircraft identification material issued in 1940 listed it as a current service aircraft, leading to subsequent misidentification. A similar situation pertained with the Heinkel He112/113 fighter that the Luftwaffe was using in great numbers...according to official aircraft recognition guides as late as 1941!!!

Have you got any pictures of these aircraft by chance? Also where did you get your info as I would like a starting point to look deeper. Thanks mate.
Gage.

 

Craig,
Here is a link for you. Bayerische Flugzeug Werke Bf 162 V2 Jaguar

Regards

Tom

 

Craig,

Another link for you. Heinkel He 112 - fighter

Regards

Tom