BBC Documentary - Tankies - 5 RTR, Jan 6th.

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by bexley84, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Part two
    Initially deals with the shock of finding that they have to fight once more while MOST of the British Army have not fired a shot in three years and the disappointment of finding the new Cromwell Tank not as good as it might have been - with elementary errors such as straight armour inviting any shot to penetrate - which was standard in most British Tanks.

    Then the fighting began in a strange new world of closed country as opposed to the wide open spaces of the Desert which meant that even Infantry with their Faustpatrones
    coud creep up to ten yards - and kill them - very disconcerting I would say...

    The failure of Goodwood was very disappointing to them as 7th Armoured were blamed and penalised by the Army and even the armchair generals at home
    who were always well out of danger in their couches and Pubs.

    They went on to many battles - and casualties and the retreat near Villers Bocage was not their problem but that of the Infantry not getting up into line....this never should happen if both are trained in Infantry/ Tanks support - a we knew for our experience in Italy with the Canadians -we went forward to-gether - or not at all !

    To lose a favourite Tank Commander always leaves great sadness in a squadron but a month before the end of hostilities is even more saddening as was recalled by the survivors.

    This is a good tale perhaps could have shown more of the relationships between Tank
    Crews and the small area in which we had to work in - but nevertheless a good and fair tale of how we managed despite many difficulties - and won against a tough enemy !

    If any of the forum members in Canada/ USA - who were cut out by the BBc would like to see this programme - then I can set up a mailing list and send the DVD off on it;s rounds - just e-mail me or PM with full name and address...

    Cheers
     
    von Poop likes this.
  2. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Tom,

    Very excellent - and thanks.

    I shall now re-view the programmes with this enhanced understanding..which may allow me to become a mite more knowledgeable.

    and if they are any continuing doubts, I am NOT Mark Urban,

    best
     
  3. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    Tom,

    Very excellent - and thanks.

    I shall now re-view the programmes with this enhanced understanding..which may allow me to become a mite more knowledgeable.

    and if they are any continuing doubts, I am NOT Mark Urban,

    best

    Can't think why anybody would want to believe that, Richard. Mark Urban is a forum member here in his own name.

    Ditto the remarks on TC's review too.
     
  4. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    The book to accompany the series is now out. Has anyone got a copy yet?


    [​IMG]

    From the publishers website:

    From the evacuation of France in 1940 to the final dash to Hamburg in 1945, the 5th Royal Tank Regiment were on the front line throughout the Second World War. Theirs was a war that saw them serve in Africa as part of the Desert Rats, before returning to Europe for the Normandy landings. Wherever they went, the notoriety of the 'Filthy Fifth' grew - they revelled in their reputation for fighting by their own rules.

    The Tank War explains how Britain, having lost its advantage in tank warfare by 1939, regained ground through shifts in tactics and leadership methods, as well as the daring and bravery of the crews themselves. Overturning the received wisdom of much Second World War history, Mark Urban shows how the tank regiments' advances were the equal of the feats of the German Panzer divisions.

    Drawing on a wealth of new material, from interviews with surviving soldiers to rarely seen archive material, this is an unflinchingly honest, unsentimental and often brutal account of the 5th RTR's wartime experiences. Capturing the characters in the crews and exploring the strategy behind their success, The Tank War is not just the story of an battle hardened unit, but something more extraordinary: the triumph of ordinary men, against long odds, in the darkest of times.
     
  5. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    According to Speer,Hitler took total credit for Germany's success for the 1940 campaign in the West.

    The plan for it came from him,he said."I have time and time again",he told his inner circle "read Colonel de Gaulle's book on methods of modern warfare employing fully motorised units,and I have learnt a great deal from this".

    So now you know.
     
  6. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Saw it is due another repeat at 0.00 hrs on Thursday.

    I assume that the late / early scheduling is just primarily so that it can go on the Iplayer for the usual month or so, and be watched at leisure by those interested etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pvbds

    Episode 1
    Tankies: Tank Heroes of World War II
    Episode 1 of 2
    The Second World War was the ultimate conflict of the machine age, and the tank was its iconic symbol. The 'tankies' who fought inside had experience of much of the conflict from the fall of France to the deserts of Africa, from the invasion of Italy to D-Day, and on to the final victory in Germany.

    In this two-part series, historian, BBC diplomatic editor and former officer in the Royal Tank Regiment, Mark Urban tells the story of six remarkable men from one armoured unit - the Fifth Royal Tank Regiment, also known as the Filthy Fifth.

    Using first-hand testimony from the last surviving veterans alongside previously unseen letters and diaries, Mark brings the story of an extraordinary 'band of brothers' to life, in visceral detail. At the same time he analyses the evolution of tank production in Britain and illustrates how we fell far behind our German enemies in both technology and tactics, relying instead on dogged determination and a relentless drive to victory, whatever the costs.


    In part one, Mark begins his journey in northern France, introducing our band of brothers in the midst of the fall of France and the retreat to Dunkirk. Characters such as 'rookie' tank driver Gerry Solomon join veterans, themselves still only in their twenties, such as and Jake Wardrop and Harry Finlayson.

    Mark then follows in the tankies' footsteps across the deserts of North Africa. Here he looks at the game-changing tank battles of Sidi Rezegh, Alam Halfa and, of course, the battle that changed the course of the Second World War - Alamein. He then takes us back to England where the tankies expect a well-earned rest; instead they are confronted with the news that as battle-hardened troops they must fight again, this time on the beaches of Normandy.

    With spectacular archive footage, including rarely seen colour footage, it brings to life the Second World War from a unique point of view.


    And...

    BBC Two - Tankies: Tank Heroes of World War II - 5th Royal Tank Regiment... the perfect choice

    5th Royal Tank Regiment... the perfect choice
    by Mark Urban - Diplomatic and Defence Editor for Newsnight, Author, and presenter of Tankies: Tank Heroes of World War II.

    The Second World War was such a uniquely destructive episode in human history, that entire divisions - thousands of men - were often written off in a few days fighting, with the broken remnants sent to other units. It might seem inconceivable that a formation could have gone all the way through six years of it, with a cadre of people who served in combat throughout that time, but a handful of British formations did.

    [​IMG]
    So what did involvement in prolonged involvement in such intense fighting do to those who survived it and how did they rationalise their experience? The survivors are now disappearing at an alarming rate, so I couple of years ago, having found a British tank battalion that had been in combat dozens of times between the abortive 1940 campaign in France and VE Day in Germany in May 1945 I was anxious to trace former members and interview them as quickly as possible.

    The choice of a tank battalion was important for a number of reasons. The issue of armoured warfare, and how the Allies managed to recoup ground lost to the Germans when they unveiled their ‘Blitzkreig’ (or ‘Lightning War’ tactics, with panzers as their centre piece) is in itself of major interest. But the other reality, sadly, is that men in infantry formations simply didn’t last long enough for a study of their role in the war as a whole to be viable.

    ‘Band of Brothers’ the classic work about Easy Company, one of those in the US 101st Airborne Division shows how quickly men churned through due to the casualties and stress of combat - and really it just focuses on eleven months from D-Day to the end of the war. When I looked at the record of one of the battalions of the Queen’s Regiment that was part of the famous 7th Armoured Division or Desert Rats, I found that just ten out of 1,200 who landed in Egypt with the battalion in the summer of 1942, had survived until VE Day just under three years later - half the war in other words.

    So I was happy to settle on the choice of the 5th Royal Tank Regiment, or 5 RTR, another element of the Desert Rats, of which something like three dozen men in its ranks in 1945 had been with it or sister battalions at the outbreak of war. To the best of my knowledge none of them survive to this day - but I did find old soldiers who had served in its ranks for most of the war, and one of 96 who was serving with 5th Tanks in 1939 and spent four years as a prisoner of war!

    My research about 5 RTR was conducted for a book that will be published in March 2013. But early on it struck me that the veterans who agreed to talk should be recorded on camera too, and soon after putting this idea to the BBC, the Tankies documentary was born, growing into its own distinctive thing.

    The films feature: Harry Finlayson, that one time prisoner of war who had been captured at the battle of Sidi Rezegh in November 1941 (how many tank commanders from that bloody, and seminal, 8th Army action are still around to tell the tale ?); Gerry Solomon, a volunteer who joined soon after the outbreak of war and fought up to the battle of Normandy in 1944 when his Firefly was knocked out by SS Panzergrenadiers and he was badly wounded; Bob Lay, another desert veteran who made it all the way to the finishing line in Hamburg in 1945; and Roy Dixon who joined 5 RTR as a fresh faced subaltern in 1944 and soon rose to be the battalion’s adjutant.

    Of course the work I have been doing - films and book - features much more than the testimony of veterans. It gleans dozens of written accounts, unpublished memoirs, letters and diaries. In many ways the 5th Tanks is just a typical unit of the Royal Armoured Corps - we wouldn’t pretend that it did its duty any better than some of the other regular army Royal Tank Regiment and cavalry outfits that were around in 1939.

    It did however, in my view, produce a very rich seam of testimony from the other ranks - the non-commissioned soldiers who commanded most of its tanks and were its backbone. The diary of Jake Wardrop, a 5 RTR sergeant killed just weeks from the end of the war, is remarkable for its honesty and has already appeared in book form - but during this project his family made available to me extraordinary new material that was edited out of the original published text. The battalion contained many other wise chroniclers too, from hardened regular army NCOs to smart grammar school boys like Bob Lay who brought their sharp civilian sensibilities to the bloody business they were collectively engaged in.

    Although usually numbering between 500 and 600, 5 RTR churned through nearly 2,500 men during the six years of war. Of these about 10% were killed in action, something like 40% were wounded and around 90 became prisoners of war like Harry Finlayson. Of the remaining difference between those who served at some time in 5th Tanks and were still there at the end of the war, hundreds were posted to other units to help train them, and others who were sometimes posted away because their nerves couldn’t take any more fighting.

    What did those who remained at the centre of this battalion, the corporals and sergeants commanding tanks or the trucks of the transport echelon make of this experience? That’s the story that we will start to tell on BBC2.
     
  7. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Unashamedly giving this thread a bump !

    Early this morning I watched Part 2 again of this super documentary (after recording it last night)

    I had forgotten how good it was !

    I urge you. If you havn't seen seen it already, see if you can get it on "Catch up"

    It is so true to what life was like in a tank unit that it actually hurts

    Ron
    who still remembers what it was like 73 years after the event
     
  8. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    This documentary has been broadcast before... very enjoyable to watch and recorded.....equally so the publication is very good record of tank warfare.

    Without doubt a first class account of tank warfare against a background of some of those involved.....expertise by the commander backed up by an experienced crew.
     
  9. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    After that endorsement, I simply have to watch it.
     
  10. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    canuck likes this.

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