BEF Soldiers Mess Tin Found in France

Discussion in '1940' started by tommy40, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. tommy40

    tommy40 Member

    Hi to all.
    I'm looking informations about F.J Smith.
    I found his mess tin in northern France.
    Informations which are rather visible under the mess tin are :
    G (...)
    790250
    F.J SMITH
    15/19
    1939

    Thanks for your help.
    I was wonder if informations about british soldiers and army numbers on items can easily be found with internet nowadays ?
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just checked on here for that number
    Geoff's 1939-47 Search Engine
    CWGC :: Casualty Details

    790250
    Looks like a RA number as it only 6 digits most were 7 digits.
    Royal Artillery (Field, Coastal & Anti-Aircraft) 721001 - 1842000 and 11000001 - 11500000

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/8564-army-number-block-allocations.html


    Name:SMITH, FRANCIS JOHN
    Initials:F J
    Nationality:United Kingdom
    Rank:Gunner
    Regiment/Service:Royal Artillery
    Age:36
    Date of Death:28/03/1945
    Service No:790250
    Additional information:Son of George and Ellen Smith; husband of Rose Smith, of Hang Hill, Tring.
    Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference:Sec. K. Grave 5.
    Cemetery:TRING CEMETERY
     
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    15/19 = 15/19 King's Royal Hussars?

    Where did you find it?
     
  4. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    tommy40,

    If you are certain about that service number, then Owen has selected your man.

    It would appear on the face of it that he was wounded and brought back to the Uk, where he later died.

    What makes you believe he was BEF?

    Regards
    Tom
     
  5. tommy40

    tommy40 Member

    Here we are...better with a photo.
    Believed to be a member of the 15/19 Hussars but I can be wrong... This mess tin was found in north of France where I was living and I believed it came from BEF, that was my opinion first.
    G... on the first line can mean "gnr" as "gunner"
    Thanks for the informations, I will try to find further informations about F.J Smith
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    15/19 = 15/19 King's Royal Hussars?

    Where did you find it?


    As in the nearest town.
     
  7. tommy40

    tommy40 Member

    I did not remember where I found that plate but I used to write details about the items I bought on fairs and boots sales.
    I will check and give you that information.
    Thanks for your fast answer !
    I still have others ww2 personnal items which were left by soldiers on withdrawal's roads in 1940...
     
  8. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Although they at first glance look the same I think it is scribed 15/17.

    Anyone alse care to take a closer look.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  9. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    No worries I was only asking as I should be able to check where the unit was in May and June. I don't have the diary or I would have been able to check for all of their time in France.

    Its a shame CWGC don't list his arty unit as this could have been checked too. You could probaly do with a Arty chap on here looking to see if the numbers are a battery and regiment as I've seen them recorded like that before too.
     
  10. tommy40

    tommy40 Member

    Thanks. ;)
    I did not found where the tin came from but most probably Dunkirk's area.

    My brother found in the 90's another tin bearing a name, rank and army number.
    The single tin was found in earth which moved when men were working to built appartments. This was close to an embarcation point at Dunkirk's beach and I got informations about that british soldier who took ship 50 years before, a sargent of the Royal Sussex Regt...nice story for me.
     
  11. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Tommy -
    I would be inclined to go with Drew's thought that he was with 15/19th Hussars as that number starting with the 79**** is an RTR number - or used to be before they all went to the 142*****
    Cheers
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    It would appear on the face of it that he was wounded and brought back to the Uk, where he later died.

    what almost 5 years later?
    Don't think so Tom.

    As for 15/19th Hussars I had mentioned them in my post but edited them out after finding him on CWGC.
    It's too high a number for them.
    528001 to 721000 Hussars
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    If he was RA in the BEF and the numbers are his unit then I think he would either be in a Field Regiment or Heavy Ant-Aircraft Regiment.
     
  14. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Owen - didn't check the cwgc entry - the RTR numbers did start with 79 at one time though - and there seems to be a plethora of "Tom's" on the site these days spo perhaps we should allocate numbers for them ... ?
    Cheers
     
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Righto Tom (TC) I was refering to the other Tom aka Smudger Jnr not to be confused with the other member called Smudge.
    ;)
     
  16. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    what almost 5 years later?
    Don't think so Tom.

    As for 15/19th Hussars I had mentioned them in my post but edited them out after finding him on CWGC.
    It's too high a number for them.

    Owen,

    Agreed if he was in the BEF.

    But I believe it is not certain that he was.

    If this is after "D" Day and wounded it would make more sense.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  17. tommy40

    tommy40 Member

    F.J Smith may have been at Dunkirk in 1940 then took ship, back to England and came back by landing in Normandy in 1944, fight in Belgium, Holland then wounded and back to England...Further research can be made by finding his artillery unit, I think.
    I also think the exact numbers are 15/17 and not 15/19 but it seems that bring no help ?
     
  18. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Tommy why not print off his CWGC certificate and apply for his records - for £30?

    Under the scheme, and in recognition of the duty of care owed to the family of the deceased subject, for a period of 25 years following the date of death of the subject and without the consent of the Next of Kin, MOD will disclose only: surname; forename; rank; service number; regiment/corps; place of birth; age; date of birth; date of death where this occurred in service; the date an individual joined the service; the date of leaving; good conduct medals (i.e. Long Service and Good Conduct Medal (LS&GCM)), any orders of chivalry and gallantry medals (decorations of valour) awarded, some of which may have been announced in the London Gazette.

    After this period, and if it is held, in addition MOD will disclose without the requirement for Next of Kin consent: the units in which he/she served; the dates of this service and the locations of those units; the ranks in which the service was carried out and details of WWII campaign medals.

    Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Personnel | Service Records | Making a Request for Information held on the Personnel Records of Deceased Service Personnel
     
  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    You need a Artillery expert to look at the numbers as some units are listed at the National Archives by their battery and regiment or the other way around. I suspect one of the numbers is the battery and the other is the regiment.
     
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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