Belgium 1940 map request.

Discussion in '1940' started by Adam Petipher, Dec 26, 2021.

  1. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Active Member

    I am trying to identify a map used by the BEF in Belgium in 1940.

    In the war diary of my great uncles regiment (77th field regiment, royal artillery) there is a trace, which would have been drawn over a map and shows their positions and two road blocks they have created.

    I would love to find the map this corresponds to but cannot find one.

    On the top of the trace it says ref map 1/50,000, sheet 55. There are 2 crosses on the map denoting lat/long positions as 64/63 and 60/64.

    I believe they would have been in the area of Tieghem/Tiegem and Caster/Kaster on the river Sheldt line.

    If anyone is able to point me in the right direction I would be very grateful. Thanks, Adam
     
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  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
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  3. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    It can't be this (U.S.) sheet which is too far east and barely shows the Dender....the earlier British series must be different.
     
  4. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Adam, see that you have asked before - did this not find it as you said?
     
  5. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Whilst I agree the map has the "Army Map Service" on it surely the map is GSGS and compiled and drawn by O.S. 1938, which I assume is Ordnance Survey, wouldn't that make the origin British?

    Military maps of the Second World War - The National Archives

    ps. That is a question not a challenge!
     
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  6. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Yes, I believe that you're right....but the appropriate sheet seems to be '53' Courtrai / Kortrijk in this series....with Tieghem located around 01 , 54.
     
  7. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Here is the original trace, but am now not sure what we are looking for.
    Trace.png
    Can see the 64/63 which is upper right but can't read the other, which presumably Adam is 64/60? (NOT 60/64 since the numbers have to be in the same order, vertical first). Mind you one is difficult to read, could we get a better scan?
    If it is on the same vertical line (64) it would be directly under the other.

    Original post here
    77th Field Regiment Royal Artillery May 1940
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
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  8. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

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  9. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

  10. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    I wondered that, perhaps Adam could confirm from the diaries what was the dates on O.O. No 3,shown on the trace.
     
  11. von Smallhausen

    von Smallhausen Junior Member

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  12. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Active Member

    Hello All, thanks for all your replies so far.

    Regarding me saying previously in a different thread that I thought I had found the position, I have since found out I was wrong, hence creating this thread.
    I maybe wrong about the position as well.

    If I could find a date for the trace then that could help narrow down the position but looking at it I think it only says May.

    Does anybody know what the 0.0 no3 would relate to?

    Tony 56- yes sorry I got the co-ordinates round the wrong way.
     
  13. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Operational Order No 3. If you look through the diary there should be a reference in the last column and should be in the appendices as was the trace.
     
  14. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

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  15. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Active Member


    Thanks, Im just looking at the diary and 0.0no3 relates to diary entry on 14th of May, so looks like it relates to a place called DEHEIDE, N.W. of Brussels.
     
  16. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Active Member

    Out of interest, would the earlier 1938 maps and the later 1943 have had the same co-ordinate numbers or could they have decided to change them?

    Sheet 55 of the 1943 map shows brussels but if the co-ordinates are followed from the trace then it appears to be of the map further north of it.
     
  17. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Map 44
    Map 2.jpg
     
  18. Adam Petipher

    Adam Petipher Active Member

    Thank you Tony.
    It must be around there somewhere, although I am still having difficulty pin pointing the exact spot
     
  19. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    It seems that we have too many likely places over quite a large area, perhaps it may be better to post up copies of the diaries and appendices so that the period can be read in context?
     
  20. battleofassche

    battleofassche Well-Known Member

    IMG_7335.JPG

    Here's the WD for 77 FR RA for May 15-19

    Try looking at the 1:25,000 topo map of that area.... much more detail.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021

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