Bismarck Sinking

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by David Seymour, Sep 29, 2005.

  1. David Seymour

    David Seymour Senior Member

    Please can anyone help with full details of the members of the crew of the Catalina captained by Dennis Briggs which sighted BISMARCK?
    Grateful for any help, as always.
    David
     
  2. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Originally posted by David Seymour@Sep 29 2005, 08:26 PM
    Please can anyone help with full details of the members of the crew of the Catalina captained by Dennis Briggs which sighted BISMARCK?
    Grateful for any help, as always.
    David
    [post=39534]Quoted post[/post]

    Can assist with one!

    U.S. Navy Lt. J. G. "Tuck" Smith was co-pilot.

    That only leaves another 5 or 7 to go.
     
  3. David Seymour

    David Seymour Senior Member

    Thanks, Spidge.
    I am also aware that the pilot was Dennis Briggs. Anything on him, anyone?
    Many thanks,
    David
     
  4. Arthur

    Arthur Senior Member

    David,
    I can only move back a month rather than forward with additional information on Dennis Briggs.

    Ross McNeill's R. A. F. Coastal Command Losses Vol, 1. 1939-41:

    On the 17th April 1941 he was stationed at Leuchars, Fife with No. 107 Squadron.

    On this date he took off at 18:45 hours for convoy escort in a Blenheim Mk IV Seriel No. 5516 [OM-?].
    At 21:15 hours when coming in to land he overshot the runway and crashed down the river bank. Crew were safe.

    Crew:
    Sqn/Ldr. D. R. Briggs.
    P/Officer P. E. L. Halls.
    Sgt. G. Johnson.

    Regards
    Arthur
     
  5. David Seymour

    David Seymour Senior Member

  6. Arthur

    Arthur Senior Member

    David,
    A bit of a coincidence! However, the rank should have sounded the alarm bells.

    Dennis Brigg did survive a crash, but it was in the Catalina. Ludovic Kennedy's "Pursuit, The Sinking of the Bismarck" page I42 states: " The captain was Flying Officer Dennis Briggs, who had recently flown in the first Catalina to take part in the Battle of the Atlantic, even survived a crash in it."

    It was through this excerpt that I found the information that I gave.

    Regards
    Arthur
     
  7. David Seymour

    David Seymour Senior Member

    Arthur,
    Does your copy of Kennedy's book name any others of that Catalina's crew?
    Best wishes,
    David
     
  8. Arthur

    Arthur Senior Member

    Hi David,

    Ensign Leonard [Tuck] Smith was the only other crew member mentioned by name and it has already been passed on to you from Spidge.

    The only information Ludovic Kennedy's "Pursuit, The Sinking of the Bismarck" gave about the crew was on page I42. It states: "Smiths fellow crewmen in Z/209 came from all over England: Sussex, Newcastle, New Barnet, Liverpool."

    However, there are some other avenues you might like to try regarding the crew:

    [1] http://www.rafweb.org/Help_Wanted.

    [2] Royal Air Forces Register of Associations: 209 Squadron: Peter Collyer, 20 Fairfield Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 2JY. [INT SPR99]

    [3] http://www.raf209.net.

    Regards
    Arthur
     
  9. David Seymour

    David Seymour Senior Member

    Arthur,
    Many thanks. I will pursue your suggested routes.
    Best wishes,
    David
     
  10. Arthur

    Arthur Senior Member

    David,
    The complement of the Catalina! Norman Franks’s book “Search Find and Kill” give the following examples of crew members:

    [1]
    Catalina ‘M’ No. 210 Squadron.
    Pilot
    2nd Pilot
    Navigator
    2nd Navigator
    Engineer
    Flight Mechanical Engineer
    1st Wireless Operator
    2nd Wireless Operator
    Wireless Operator Mechanic/Air Gunner
    Rigger.

    [2]
    Catalina IV‘X’ No. 210 Squadron.
    Pilot
    2nd Pilot
    3rd Pilot
    Navigator
    Engineer
    Flight Mechanical Engineer/ Air Gunner
    1st Wireless Operator
    2nd Wireless Operator
    Wireless Operator Mechanic/Air Gunner
    Rigger.

    [3]
    Catalina IVA‘C’ JV933 No. 333 Norwegian Squadron.
    Pilot
    2nd Pilot
    Engineer
    Observer/Navigator
    Wireless Operator /Air Gunner
    Wireless Operator /Air Gunner
    Wireless Operator Mechanic/Air Gunner
    Flight Mechanical Engineer/ Air Gunner
    F.M.A?/ Air Gunner

    Sorry, I have no idea what the abbreviation F.M.A. stand for. However,I hope this will help you with the number of crew that you are looking for!

    Regards
    Arthur
     
  11. David Seymour

    David Seymour Senior Member

    Arthur,
    Thank you for your help on this.
    With best wishes,
    David
     
  12. Wicky

    Wicky Junior Member

    Catalina PBY-5 / Mk1 AH545 / WQ-Z 209 sqn Entered service April 1941
    Flew from Lough Erne, Northern Ireland till July 1941. Iceland in August for 2 months before returning to the UK at RAF Pembroke Dock. Attacked U-81 on 30 Oct 1941 before the Catalina was lost on patrol on July 15 1942.

    At some point possibly in October? 1941 it was equipped at the MAEE (Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment, Scotland) with ASV MkII and trials Leigh Light.

    Might have had a diversion ... "In August 1941 three Catalinas arrived (at RAF Invergordon, Scotland) from Lough Erne on a secret mission, but packing cases marked S N S O Archangel gave away their destination. Their mission was to transport hurricane spares and key personnel to Grasna near Murmansk after one of the aircraft had taken 21½ hours for the trip due to an electrical storms. Returning with other passengers one Catalina had to force land at Whallsey in the Shetlands.""

    May 26 1941 crew that located and tracked the Bismark:

    RAF P/O Dennis Briggs (Capt)
    RAF P/O Otter
    RAF F/O Lowe
    RAF Sgt Edmonds
    RAF Sgt Burton
    RAF Sgt Leigh
    RAF Sgt Dunning
    RAF Sgt Stenning
    RAF LAC Martin
    USN Ensign Leonard "Tucker" Smith (Co-Pilot)

    REPORT OF THE SCOUTING AND SEARCH FOR BISMARCK BY
    ENSIGN SMITH


    Which contradicts "A Radar History of World War II: Technical and Military Imperatives"By Louis Brown. Page 127

    "A sighting through the swirling clouds over a rough sea by a Catalina flying boat equipped with ASV mark II established the Bismarck's position ..."

    [​IMG]
    AH545 / WQ-Z
     
  13. I'm a real fan of all things Bismark and was wondring about the controversy primarily in Britain regarding it's sinking. When Rob Ballard discovered the wreck he stated that the ship had obviously been scuttled by it's crew. At the time this resulted i a bit of a flap in Britain.
    Ballard's statement that the wreck showed all thesigns of a deliberate scuttling was unacceptable to the British public. I guess I couldn't "fathom" all the hullaballoo. After all even if the German's sank their own ship as they did the Graf Spee, they did so because the British navy forced them too. Right? I mean i's not like the German's just said "ohh bugger this the damn thing's going in circles lets call it a day and open the seacocks." Wasn't it more like "Gott im Himmel were getting pounded into scrap iron and the bloody thing won't keel over! Open the seacocks!"
     
  14. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Senior Member

    Two points:
    Bismarck was thoroughly wrecked from end to end by gunfire. Her main belt, as well as the secondary upper one was pierced more than once. All four turrets and their barbettes show signs of penetrations. There is obvious evidence of at least one boiler explosion (the large hole amidships to port). She was hit by several torpedoes as well. All this damage was inflicted by the British.

    Second, the Bismarck sank due to flooding and or progressive flooding. Whether the Germans or British were the cause is debatable. That Bismarck was wrecked and then sunk is not.
     
  15. Two points:
    Bismarck was thoroughly wrecked from end to end by gunfire. Her main belt, as well as the secondary upper one was pierced more than once. All four turrets and their barbettes show signs of penetrations. There is obvious evidence of at least one boiler explosion (the large hole amidships to port). She was hit by several torpedoes as well. All this damage was inflicted by the British.

    Second, the Bismarck sank due to flooding and or progressive flooding. Whether the Germans or British were the cause is debatable. That Bismarck was wrecked and then sunk is not.
    Yes, my point exactly. The Royal Navy caused the destruction of the Bismark, regardless of whether the German's were simultaneously trying to scuttle her. On a separate tack I've heard that Jim Cameron has made a documentary about the Bismark. Does anyone know what it is called?
     
  16. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    The flight to Russia which Wicky mentions - it was to take Stafford Cribbs to Russia - the names of the other passangers I have but will have to look them up.
    A small detachment of RAF Cats were in Russia at the time , this aircraft was one of those sent up to take supplies to them.

    P/O Lowe is "Fats Lowe" a South African , as far asI can recall he was decorated for an attack he made on a submarine contact.

    The first operational use of Catalinas was made from Lough Erne on 22nd March 1941 - two aircraft came over the night before from Scotland and were to fly early the next morning - searching for Scharnhorst and Gneisenau - in the event one experienced engine trouble and crashed near Kinlough , Eire - there were no survivors and all on board were killed.
    ( All but one is buried in Irvinestown Co. Fermanagh)

    Surprised to see the Catalina photo - I got this same one from an instructor at 131 OTU , even down to the writing !
    ( See the living history thread in Wehrmacht awards - Neglected flyingboat base thread).

    The Captain of the 240 Squadron crew who re established contact with Bismarck was a gent called Gaynor Williams a canadian - when a number of 240 Squadron aircraft left on detachment in Iceland he thought that he was not going to play a part in the Bismarck episode - as it was he took a composite crew to search for her oin the approaches / her likely approach to the Biscay ports.
    One member of his crew told me how he is probably the only person to have cooked streak whilst being taken under fire by a German battleship.
    (Mr Cyril Newtown, who was a rigger / AG).
     
  17. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Whatever about who sank her, she was still a beautiful ship - Bismarck & Tirpitz as was her sister, the Tirpitz.
     
  18. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Bismarck's place in history is assured owing to her action against Hood and Prince of Wales.
    Holland so almost got it just right , to intercept and cross their "T" , his turn to bring his guns to bear was almost complete when Hood was hit by that fatal shot.

    German naval rules forbade a cruiser to engage a battleship - the damage to Bismrack's forward radar arrary place Prinz Eugen in the lead and as a consequence the Hood fired on her in the belief that she was Bismarck.
    Leach in Prince of Wales did not make that mistake.

    Had Lindermann's desire to destroy the badly damaged Prince of Wales been heeded it is almost certain that she would have sank both capital ships.

    The fatal radio message (repeated) , the fatal hit on her rudders and what put her there to begin with - having sailed from Norway without topping up her tanks - why Lutjens did this will never be known.
    The hit from Prince of Wales compouned this and created a real fuel shortage on the battleship , down by the bows she was seriously damaged and was in trouble.


    Bismarck set her final course for France short of fuel and sailing some 8-10 knots below her maxium speed - due to a shortage of fuel , a few hundred gallons more would have put her beyond reach .
    The map reading error on board Tovey's flagship would have presented a case of role reversal - it could well have been it which tipped the balance in favour of Bismarck.

    The Torpedo hit on Bismarck was very lucky had she steered straight the damage would not have most likely have done her no serious damage.
     
  19. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Going from memory after reading a Naval book many years ago the crew of the Bismark manned their guns to the bitter end. It is said thet when the Bismark sank there was not celebration, but a sombre atmosphere by those who witnessed it.

    I believe that the bravery of the Bismark crew was officially whitewashed over for fear of morale purposes.

    Regards

    Tom
     
  20. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    The info comes from the log of a 240 Squadron Rigger/AG called Mr Cyril Newtown.
    The crew was that of Gaynor Williams , it was a composite crew made up of whoever could be found.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The enemy aircraft were swordfish sent out to try and locate and observe the crippled battleship.

    The location of Bismarck was as a result of observation and a degree of luck - radar did not play a part in the contact being made.

    Wicky makes mention of the "Secret Mission" to Russia.
    This comes from the logbook of the late Sgt J. Iverack , it details the flight and times.
    240 Squadron CO Jack Sumner was at Archangel at the time stuck there waiting for spare parts to be flown out.
    JI wrote a book post war called "The Chronicles of a Nervous navigator" which tells of his wartime experiences.
    The flight is told in that book - his widow Peggy had it published after his death.
    Sadly Mrs Iverach passed away a few years ago.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Iverach tells how they were "buzzed" by a Russian fighter which broke off one of their aerials .
    The pilot of the aircraft was shot for endangering the Catalina and its passangers.


    Gotthard Heinrici
    Whatever about who sank her, she was still a beautiful ship - Bismarck & Tirpitz as was her sister, the Tirpitz.

    I agree for her size she looked very graceful - when viewed from the stern her size is really apparent - she was a heavyweight.

    Goping back to Bismark.
    The copy below again from John Iverach notes their contact with Hood and prince of Wales seen moving towards the Denmark Strait.
    A few hours later back in Iceland they could actually hear the action between the four heavy units.

    [​IMG]



    U-boat Archive - Bismarck - Interrogation Report
    An Admiralty report on the interrogation of the survivors from Bismarck , some interesting conclusions and observations are made.
     

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