British 1st Army (North Africa)

I can see from my grandad's record of service that he was in the Royal Artillery for the best part of WW2 --> from 41-44, then he joined the Lancs Fusiliers from 44-45, finally ending up in the R.Signals from 45-46. The medals he has as follows:

War Medal 1939-45
Defence Medal
Italy Star
Africa Star (With 1st Army Clasp)
1939-45 Star
General Servide Medal (with Palestine 1945-48 clasp)

As seen above, he was part of the 1st Army in North Africa. Since i'm pretty new to this, can someone advise where I might start tracing his movements in the war? After a bit of research, I found out that the 1st Army in North Africa consisted of the British X and IX Corps plus one French and one US Corps... What's my next step?

 

Jamie

Welcome aboard !

While you consider Owen's questions you might like to know that the 2nd Battalion of the LF were in the 11th Infantry Brigade of the 78th Div in North Africa.

Ron

 

Welcome Jamie,

As Owen has said if you can try to find out which units, etc. he was in to get a focused view of his wartime movements.

Lee

 

Dear Both, thanks for your quick replies.

I have a few documents relating to his service:

According to his record of service;

19.6.41 to 31.8.44 (RA)
1.9.44 to 13.11.45 (Lancs Fusiliers)
14.11.45 to 15.12.46 (R. Signals)

Ron, regarding your comment, I think he would have spent his whole time in North Africa as a member of the RA as his record of service states that he joined the Lancs Fusiliers in September 1944, which he would have already more than likely been in Italy?

About units/battalions, i'm really not sure. I applied for his papers a couple of months ago but i've been told it might take 9-12 months to hear something as they have a lot of requests at the moment.

I have a couple of photos, including one of his first battalion (I guess it's when he finished his basic training as it looks like it was taken in the UK, and also there are officers wearing cap badges of the RA. I'm not sure if there is any mention of the battalion name/number though. Would he have fought along these same people once they got to the war zone or would they have been spread out amongst the various divisions/units?

Looking through this list of papers, I can see an old pay slip (I assume from his time spent in the R.Signals as his rank is listed as Sigm --> can't make out the signature but signed by Lt. Col. 251 Fd Regt, RA (TA).

Ron (I take it you are a vet yourself?). Would you be able to comment on his time spent in the Signals? --> As I mentioned in my first post, he has the General Service Medal with the Palestine 45-48 clasp --> I assume you actually had to be present in Palestine to be awarded this?

 

Jamie, he certainly would have been in Palestine to be awarded the GSM with Palestine clasp. A great resource for Palestine and other post-war conflicts is the Britain's Small War website: Britains Small Wars
Lee

 

Jamie

Ron (I take it you are a vet yourself?). Would you be able to comment on his time spent in the Signals?


Yes to the first query, probably no the the second.

As a Driver/Op in the RA and later a Loader/Op in the RAC, we had little to do with the Royal Corps of Signals as we were very much working on our own, either in a Wireless Truck or in a tank or other armoured vehicle.

Just hang around here and other members will be along to offer their experience.

Ron

 

Ok, all great and encouraging replies.

I'm assuming once I get copies of his papers, they'll state the battalion/units he served with? I say this because the reply I got from the army personnel centre wasn't very encouraging.

Owen, do you mean i'll be able to read the diary of the units/battalion he served with? Where would I find those?

 

The national archives at Kew Gardens, a very straight forward system.

If you want to trace where he was then its easy enough matching locations with modern maps online, however a lot of the mountains, hills and villages in northern africa are not marked and you'll need the original maps. These may be held in the unit diaries but are most likely at division or corps levels, and failing that there are always the maps at the british library in london who hold them all.

 

11th Bn Lancashire Fusiliers were also in Italy.
Here's a thread about an action they were involved in October 1944.
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/italy/6002-11th-bn-lancashire-fusiliers.html

Interesting... I think he may have been part of this LF battalion in Italy (at least the dates match). Interestingly, now i've read some of the post I seem to remember he talked about some members of his battalion being awarded the VC or other distinguished medals...

 

That sound smore like Jefferson of the 2nd Bn LF. ( the one Ron mentioned)
He was awarded the VC for an action in May '44.
jeffersonVC

Bythe way I can't find any unit as the 251 Field Regt RA.

Ok, then I guess that can't be the one as he joined LF 1.9.1944.

Regarding his record of service, I guess I can post it here as it's not exactly secret info:

Name J. Cooke
No. 1821286



Regarding the pay slip I found, see below. I think this refers to his time post ww2 in the signals. Maybe you can make sense of it?

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc435/Jamppa80/PaySlipJCooke.jpg

 

By the way, would there be any reason why someone would change regiments? Would it be out of choice or simply was posted to? Actually he came from Lancashire (Borough of Swinton & Pendlebury at the time)

 

Jamie

By the way, would there be any reason why someone would change regiments? Would it be out of choice or simply was posted to?


In my experience, the last thing that would ever be considered would be a service-man's preferences

In fact, using every chapter & passage in KRRS, (Kings Rules & Regulations) it was generally accepted that the Army could do anything it liked to you except give you a baby.

This was later altered to read that it could in fact give you a baby if it wanted to but couldn't make you love it !

Ron

 

Jamie



In my experience, the last thing that would ever be considered would be a service-man's preferences

In fact, using every chapter & passage in KRRS, (Kings Rules & Regulations) it was generally accepted that the Army could do anything it liked to you except give you a baby.

This was later altered to read that it could in fact give you a baby if it wanted to but couldn't make you love it !

Ron

....made me laugh

btw...can you tell me what a service record will look like? - I mean the thing I am expecting to get at some point from the personnel office.

I assume it will tell me more than i already have i.e. the link I posted (Army Form W5258).

 

Ok, just taken a look at the photo I mentioned re: basic training. I can see a number in the right hand corner B867/P1, does this say something?

 

Jamie

btw...can you tell me what a service record will look like? - I mean the thing I am expecting to get at some point from the personnel office.


Lot's of examples on this site and I too have posted a full set of my own records on my personal page.

Click on my Avatar which should take you to my profile.

On the right hand side of the screen click on my Photo Albums (Army Records).

Be warned, not everybody seems to get a full set of records sent to them but try asking for a full set when you apply.

Ron

 

Jamie C -
Having been off-line for the week - I have missed the beginning of this thread but in the waiting period for his service records - I would assume that he was with the RA - possibly light AA - in 78th Division -until after the Gothic Line battles - many of those units were broken up to replace casualties in Infantry and Tank units - Ron had that experience at about that time -so he possibly joined the LF Battalion in 1st Division - which - after the Italian Campaign ceased - went to Palestine and thus gained that medal
Cheers

 

just a quick one... records arrived today - 12 months exactly! will keep you posted!