Good morning, The Italian family who gave my father a bike were I believe in Modena and the head of the family had been a racing driver before the war. Who knows? regards Nik
Nik, As perhaps you know the home of Ferrari is a Modena. I have two suggestions for you - that you contact the Ferrari Museum at Modena who will almost certainly have a list of pre-war racing drivers. Otherwise, the family may have been that of driver Tazio Nuvolari, who came from nearby Mantua. Good luck! Vitellino
I really don't know what to say Vitellino thanks again I will follow your leads and let you know what happens. regards Nik
Hi Guys, late into the show but have some info My Grandfather, HHC Douty was and officer in the Rifle Brigade and wrote about his escape from Padula in September 1944. He says on the 8th September, Italian officers came rushing into the camp to say the war was over - Armistice between Italy and the allies. Big cheese (he quotes "A Brigadier") demanded the release of all POWs because he feared the German army would take them all over and ship everyone north, to Germany. Italian reply was there was a clause in the Armistice that says that the Italians must keep all POW safe and hand them over the the allies. at 3am gunfire erupted and the SS arrived. 300 Italians surrendered to 100 Germans.11th September, warning given they were moving everyone at 4pm. Fires were lit to burn everything that could not be carried. 4.30pm they were loaded onto trucks. He had teamed up with Peter Hubble who was same regiment, captured in Egypt at the same time. I hour later arrived at Moderna to be met by cattle trucks. 30 men per truck every 4 trucks was a flatbed with armed SS guards. train waited in siding until the next day before moving off slowly with regular stops and starts. In a truck with Australian officers - one had a knife and they spent the night cutting a hole in the floor, hiding it with the bits when inspected.. on 12th September they drew lots in pairs for the order. GF and Peter were the 8th in line. By the time they had been woken by their turn, the truck was half empty. They could hear others landing on the stones and were afraid they would be heard. No shots sounded. GF and Peter dropped through, crawled to the buffers and then cleared the stones into a maize field. It was 3.30am. They walked until they found assistance and eventually were helped by several italians (dressing up as locals and going on a cart to Lavis). The local bankers wife and daughter helped them to make their way onto a train that took them into the mountains - in plain sight of the Germans - they risked their lives to get them safely on that train. The conductor told them where to get off and they made their way over the mountains until finding another group who apparently, were expecting them. They would not wait for the guide to come back from the mountains but tried themselves and struggled with the altitude and being in poor shape. They came across another group who had received the heads up they were on their way. The next helpers took them across the mountains and a glacier to within a short distance from the Swiss border. They avoided all human meetings after that until at the last hill, merely feet away from the border, they stumbled into four retired german soldiers. Had they stopped and looked, they would have been able to wait until they passed as one of them told GF that they had a three mile long path to cover and it would have been easy to pass safely - the swiss border at that point was not covered. They had buried their dogtags on advice from the first helpers and were accused of being spies or partisans. That got them into a lot of trouble. That is where his story about Padula ends. He ended up in another camp where he had a serious stomach operation and was finally shipped back to Blighty to rehabilitate. He never spoke a word of this until he was in his final months and then documented the Padula section but not what happened afterwards!
Oh yes, he said when the SS Officer arrived at the Brenner Pass, the trucks were checked, four of the trucks were completely empty and the SS Officer in charge of the guards was put under close arrest and marched off. That is what happens when you stick a flatbed every four trucks as they could only see the sides of the two either side of them!
I don't suppose anyone can give me any idea of what happened to him after capture can they? I think he was a Captain in the Rifles - Hugh Harrington Cazalet Douty
Hi Annie I would guess from the info below he ended up in Germany UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945 Name: H H C Douty Rank: Lieutenant Army Number: 129501 Regiment: Rifle Brigade POW Number: 4260 Camp Type: Oflag Camp Number: VII-B Camp Location: Eichstätt, Bavaria TD Oflag VII-B - Wikipedia
Dont give up yet - other members will have their say and hopefully that will include more details of his time in Italy TD
I am wondering....he never spoke about HOW be ended up having half his stomach removed or why he took such a long time to get home after they were liberated, only that it was done over there. I wonder if he was one of the ones that was shot by the usaf by mistake? Also, would love to hear from family of Peter Hubble of the Rifle Brigade. Did he end up in the same POW camp in Germany with him? they were together throughout from Egypt to the Swiss border.
UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945 Name: P T Hubble Rank: Lieutenant Army Number: 105154 Regiment: Rifle Brigade POW Number: 4262 Camp Type: Oflag Camp Number: VII-A Perhaps your father was in the hospital section of the 'same' camp, you would need to check further TD
Thanks TD. That's interesting. Stalag V11-A was in nearby Moosburg and took a mix of allied soldiers. Oflag V11-A took Polish officers. Either way, it looks like they were separated, probably to stop them escaping again together! I just wish he had told us more before he died but then again, there was so much going on at the time, we knew we only had months left and there was a lot of family issues. I never knew if he met him again afterwards or what happened. I knew he got together with two others many years later during a by-election campaign in South Warwickshire; both from the Italian camp. One was a transport officer (Angus Maude RASC) and one was an army chaplain (CTP Powell). Hopefully, Mr Hubble's family are on here somewhere and will say Hi! Many thanks again.
I know nothing of German POW Camps but in this case I suspect a transcription error. The POW Nos for Douty and Hubble are only two apart, which surely indicates they are in the same camp. Checking by using POW Nos 4259 and 4263 (I can't tie in 4261) gives officers in Oflag V11-B. Tim
I have come back to this post on Padula because I have at last found out that the camp was, as I imagined, cleared before the landings at nearby Salerno on 9 September: Australian airman Tom Wood gives the date as 31 July. He was sent to PG 19 Bologna True, WO 392/21 does give Lt. HHC Douty as being present in PG 35 Padula, but as is now stated by The National Archives, this was the last camp in which his presence was recorded by the IRCC.We should all take note of this important piece of information. Lt Douty wrote: Fred Egglestone (see previous page wrote: Therefore, it seems clear to me that Wood, Egglestone and Douty would all have been moved from Padula to Bologna on 31 July 1943. Vitellino
