For all those uniform specialists out there, I thought this note from the war diary of 46 Transport Column (WO171/2252) might be of interest: "31 December 1944 1100 C,RASC visited SECOND ARMY (REAR) conference DDST and DADST(T) ref re-org. ST Detail 454 – 6 x 5-tonners of 287 Coy RASC (Armd Div Tpt) reported to 15 A.O.D. (2 sub. Section) at MALINES earliest 31 Dec ’44 to collect 8000 suits Snow Warfare (contract No. 000377) – under release authy 15 AOD TPM P.C. 17 of 241600A – for delivery to 1 Ord Maint Coy at MOLL." It would be interesting to see who they were subsequently isssued to. Regards Tom
Tom O Probably meant for the fictional Mountain troops fighting in Italy in their leather jackets - issued one per three men- or the Mountain troops of 21 AGroup fighting as Infantry in sub sea level Holland….. Logistics gone mad Cheers
Mr Canning is correct in that many were issued to the 52 Lowland Division. I know some were on issue to the 51st Highland Division and the 49th (West Riding) Division. Their use seemed mainly to be for active patrolling rather than general wear.
Hello Tom, From 3 Recce Regt’s War Diary “Report on the Patrol Crossing of the R MAAS near SAMBEEK on 27 Jan 45”. “8. Dress Battle dress, denim, snow suits, and Wellington boots were worn. This had been the dress for all trg and is found to be quite satisfactory. The hoods of snow suits restrict hearing and were NOT used. Headgear comprised cap comforters bound with white linen. White flour was rubbed over faces and gloves and sprinkled in the hair. Where possible weapons and magazines were bound with bandage-like strips of white linen.” Elsewhere in the report it mentions that a recce prior to the patrol was not possible due to snow. That winter was a particularly severe one. Regards, Richard
Tom, Some units of the 6th Airborne were given snow suits while in the Ardennes. I'm not sure if they were part of the same issue you indicate. There are a few official photos showing their use, the most well known being the the 6th Airborne sniper. Regards ...
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205202992 http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205202995 1940, but showing camouflaged rifle http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205204864
Sorry Mike, I don't know, but the ones the 1940 A/T crew below have an improvised look - sheets? http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205204865 http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205204854 To round off the images which IWM have to offer: WW1 http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205213666 http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30094611
Tom, A story by Fred Bailey, King’s Royal Rifle Corps, in which the use of snow suits is mentioned while in Northern Italy. The Fright of My Life - WW2 People's War - BBC Attached is a watercolour by John Staerck (IWM) of what is probably riflemen from the KRRC in snow suits. Regards ...
Snow-suits were the exception rather than the rule, for British soldiers during the Ardennes 44/45. Most British soldiers had to do with their khaki camouflage, which made them stand out against the snowy background. The well-known pics of the 6th Airborne Division represent men of the Royal Ulster Rifles. The pictures were taken near Grune on 14 January 45, when the battle was already over for the 6th AB Div. I know from one of the veterans that they were given the snow-suits only for the photo- and film-shoot and had to hand them in immediately afterwards.
Cee There may very well have been snow suits in Italy - BUT - inasmuch as we were surrounded by Infantry - I never saw even ONE snow suit - on anyone - that story appears to be a touch of imagination as the so called Brass knew the idiocy of sending a two man patrol out to find a hostile enemy group……the drawing of the two riflemen ( sic) could be anywhere as the attending text describes the 4th AB of 7th AD…..and they never saw snow in the desert - only in NWE..so quite the assumption... Cheers
Infantrymen of Le Régiment de la Chaudière, who are wearing British winter camouflage clothing, on patrol, Bergendal, Netherlands, 24 January 1945
Excuse the bluntness of this but we must clarify 2 main points here: 1. Snow suits were indeed usually only issued to those doing a patrol. Why would anyone else at that moment need them? They'd need to be laundered after a few patrols anyway otherwise they wouldn't be fully white anymore. So giving them out and taking them back isn't so stupid when you think about it. Let's not think of it as a penny pinching British Army, more pragmatic and considerate. 2. At least the British Army were equipping their men with suitable clothing that was fit for purpose. The US army on the other hand, generally were not. Look at the famous photo and then ask why people always tell you that American kit was always better. My Grandfather told a similar tale of when they were in Holland in the Winter of 1944 and they were facing a house across a stream in which the SS had been staging some resistance. It was the only house for some distance and so was an obvious vantage point. He told me his officer and two NCOs went out on a patrol and donned the snow suits, specifically for the purpose. They went to try and convince the SS to surrender but needed to get close enough, without be blown to pieces before hand, to negotiate with them. He never mentioned the snow suits at any other time and remembered this vividly, so we can infer that it was the only time he ever saw them. The SS, by the way, resisted further so someone called for the RAF Town Planning Service...who then rearranged the landscape with the aid of some bomb-carrying Spitfires.
That fits with the photo of the Chaudieres. It is the Scout Platoon which is pictured and they presumably would be doing the most patrolling.
Some good points made on the issuing of snow suits for patrol purposes. The photo of the 6th Airborne sniper was taken by Bert Hardy 5 AFPU and I suspect he was also the photographer of the others in that January 14 series. Someone sold what looks like a 1945 magazine page of the photos on eBay. Hardy also did a bit of freelancing on the side selling his photo stories to magazines like the Picture Post during the war. There are more photos from this series and possibly others of the Airborne in snow suits on Battlefield Historian starting here and following on from page 9 that my be of interest. Battlefield Historian - Ardennes Search I'll also attach one that caught my eye. It doesn't look like it was taken by a professional or else it was a slip that didn't make the cut? Regards ...
Cee - Pictures of recce troops are either Airborne Recce (6th AB Div) or 61st Recce Regt, which was attached to 6th AB Div. for the Ardennes operation. They operated in the area between Rochefort and St-Hubert, on the junction between British 30 Corps and U.S. VIII Corps (Third U.S. Army).