Can anyone help me? 2nd Battalion, Northamptonshire Regiment

Discussion in 'Italy' started by Natasha, Mar 28, 2007.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Owen you are brilliant!! Thank you very much. My Gran always said that my Great Uncle was killed by shell fire and this seems to tie in with this text. His name was John Hughes Jacques and I wonder if those boys at Cassino War Cemetery on your next thread were together at the time they were killed. I do have a picture of his grave thanks. My mum went to visit it a couple of years ago.

    I'm hoping my Great Aunt will sign the consent form for the Service Record and then I can find out when he enlisted and where he was after training at Newquay!

    Thanks again Owen. I really appreciate your help.


    Not really my area (Italy) but I can add the camp in Newquay would be called Penhale and still exists today, incase you didn't know.


    It gets quite a few mentions in BBC's people's war.

    BBC - WW2 People's War - Search Results
     
  2. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    We never knew he had been so well travelled! When I picked up three letters and a couple of photos I never imagined that he had been all over. And I never would have known a fraction of this without the help from you all of you. I appreciate it very much.
     
  3. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    I had no idea that the camp was called Penhale! In one of the letters from my Great Uncle he sketched the NAFFI on the cliff. He said it used to be a concert hall :)

    Thanks for that Drew. Anything that I can find out about where he was makes his life more real. I don't like to think that he lost his life so young and just a couple of generations on is forgotten.
     
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Rosie, I missed the bit about signals training. Do you think that he was one of the wireless Ops killed with "D" Company ?

    The Newquay location makes no sense in terms of the main Battalion's locations so if he was with the Northamptons at that time then he was detached for some reason.

    It will be interesting to see his service records when you're able to obtain them.

    The main unit, after their return from France in 1940 were at the following locations :-

    12/06/1940 Turriff Scotland
    02/07/1940 Doune Scotland
    16/10/1940 Northwich England
    04/04/1941 Enniskillen Northern Ireland
    17/01/1941 Caterham England
    20/03/1942 Embarked "Duchess of Atholl" (Believed to be bound for India).

    It's quite likely that there was leave prior to embarkation.
    My Grandfather as an NCO had brought his family first to Scotland and then to Caterham where they stayed (which is why I'm from down that way !).

    He did indeed survive the war and died in 1995, a couple of months short of his 90th birthday. He was, and remains, a hero of mine not just because of his war service but because of his ability to always appear unconcerned when things went wrong and then to make the story funnier each time it was told.


    Rich
     
  5. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Rich - all I know is that he was a signaller and was killed by shellfire on 30th October 1943. When I picked up his photo and letters a couple of weeks ago, I had hoped at the very most to find where he was most likely to have been killed and also to know what the weather was like, to get an idea of the conditions he would have been fighting in.

    Then Owen posted the page from 'The Fifth Division' and a map, and then you posted from 'A History of the 58th' and from 'History of the Northamptonshire Regiment' and I suddenly knew where my Great Uncle had died and what he and those he had served alongside had had to face. His last letter to my Gran was sent from Troia, dated 22nd October 1943. To then know dates, times, details of the battle was something else.

    And, daft as it may seem, since my Mum went to Cassino War Cemtery she has mentioned a few times that one of the graves very near to his, was for a man killed in his 30's. It was also quite something that you then produced a picture of him!

    Without yours and Owen's help, I would still be in the wilderness!!
     
  6. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I'm glad that you've been able to tie up some loose ends Rosy. It goes without saying that I (and I suspect Owen also) would be keen to see his records if you obtain them and it would be nice to see his photograph as well.

    I'm not sure if 'we' (the family) have copies of the War Diary for this period. The Italian campaign diaries are several huge bundles and we haven't yet copied it all.

    Do you have e-mail notification for replies to this thread ? If not, it would be a good idea to request it so that if we find more in the future you'll know about it.

    In the meantime, if his letters mention locations such as Madagascar, India and Iraq and you want to know more then I can certainly fill you in on the details.

    Rich.
     
  7. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Sorry for the delay in replying Rich. I have scanned his photograph, but I don't see what I need to do to upload it so am going to find some how to notes ;-) and of course you and Owen can see his records. It takes a while for them to be sent though doesn't it?

    My Aunt is going to visit my Great Aunt and perhaps she has some letters or remembers something.

    Thanks for the offer of further help too :)
     
  8. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Hopefully there should be a picture my Great Uncle....
     

    Attached Files:

    Owen likes this.
  9. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Thanks Rosy. What a shame that he's not wearing insignia. Its a nice quality photograph though.
    Rich
     
  10. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Today I received my Great Uncle John's service history. After dealing with my grandad's record which is pages long, this one - perhaps unsurprisingly - is a little on the thin side.

    Anyway, it seems he was with Sherwood Foresters initially, then in November 1942 was moved to 70th Northants and posted to 2nd Northants later on in 1943.

    His unit would have been part of convoy KMF 17 which sailed from the UK 19/6/43, but not yet too sure about his movements to MEF and then on to BNAF.

    Jules.

    Service History:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    The attached map of Villa San Giovanni was in the 2 Northants War Diary WO 169/10270 (1943) as is the second "False Horizon" image. Not sure where that is at present, but will check that.
     

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  12. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Thanks for posting the service record. A sadly short career. Probably a case of the wrong place at the wrong time but an infantryman's lot was not a happy one in the Italian campaign.
     
  13. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Thanks for posting the service record. A sadly short career. Probably a case of the wrong place at the wrong time but an infantryman's lot was not a happy one in the Italian campaign.

    It's a pleasure and thanks again for the help when I first posted about him on the forum.
     
  14. Michael Line

    Michael Line Member

    My Nans Cousin also died in the same attack Mervyn Jack Line. hopefully get to Cassino next year..
     

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  15. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Michael.

    The location of 2 NORTHANTS in Oct 43 is about 40km due east of Cassino between Isernia and Campobasso. It was quite a time before the battle for Cassino started in earnest in Jan 44.

    He is buried in Cassino because it is the nearest CWGC cemetery.

    If you are interested in the battles of Cassino, I am running a battlefield tour there, Covid willing on 13-16 May 21 if that helps.

    Regards

    Frank
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  16. Michael Line

    Michael Line Member

    They were killed just North of Macchiagodena.. and they were buried among a group of 11 graves near a Farm called Fonti Marina, which is to the East of the town of Macchiagodena (to the East of Cassino) - Army Map Italy Sheet 161 ref 348299.
     
  17. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Michael.

    I make that Grid Reference 1km NNE of Macchiagodena.

    Is that your understanding?

    Regards

    Frank
     
  18. Michael Line

    Michael Line Member

    i did get a site to visit regarding map reference but couldnt work it out. so from reading other stuff; i sort of narrowed it down.. and on todays google maps i think there is a building very close by.. will take a screenshot see if it matches to your information..



    i think where i put the red circle is where they were buried .. and the blue line is the ridge that was shelled... but like i say its a rough guess as the site the CWGC gave me to follow the ref i couldnt make head or tail of it...
    I am hoping to go next year also and place a cross at his grave in Cassino, as i do not think i will be able to visit the area around macchiagodena as i have severe copd and the terrain doesnt look suitable..
     

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  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Had a look on the co-ords translator & got a different location to you.
    I know it isn't 100% accurate.
    41° 34' 17'' N 14° 25' 03'' E
     
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