Can anyone help me with this service record?

Howdy all,

I've pulled some service records before and was able to make sense of them. This one, however, is proving a little bit more difficult. Would anyone be willing to look over the attached and help ensure the below is correct, help fill in the blanks, and provide some advice on the various questions throughout?

• November 42: Enlisted in the General Service Corps. Basic training right?
• December: Posted to 105 Company, REME, then onto No.25 Primary Training Centre, and then to 203 Section, REME?

• January 43: Passed trade test as a motor mechanic. then something B Class something????
• April: Joined No. 3 .... something?
• ???? - a bunch of scribbles I can't read lol
• June: No. 3 (Brighton) Technical Training Group. There is a lot of scribbles that I can't read, but I get the impression part of his further training.
• August: Back with 203 Section (or assigned to it?)
• September:
  • Guess he went on leave since it references his home.
  • RDYKK???
  • Then onto a holding center (my understanding would be this would be the place he was told to go hand around until the ships were ready?) and dispatched to Africa.
  • North Africa, it seems in a lot of literature, tends means Tunisia, with Egypt or Libya otherwise specified. But, I am not sure that is applicable here and I think it means Egypt.
  • Drafted to something?
  • X IV list
  • 5th Battalion I.GRTD????
  • In short, this would all mean he was administratively and literally transferred form the UK to Africa and assigned to a specific unit (one would assume a REME workshop)?

• February 44: Mech Warfare Exp Est? (guessing Mechanized or Mechanical warfare expert, a really good mechanic lol?)
• April: X II list? Doesn't seem to make sense in this context of being in Africa.
• May: X IV list
• June: Posted to the 18th Infantry Brigade. Something about 741 Inf? Joslen states the brigade was in Italy at this time, although his service sheet implies he was still in Africa so this doesn't make sense to me.
• July: Re-classified as a class III something?

• March 45: No ideas!
• April: X II List
• July: Went AWOL, busted for a week. I get the impression AWOL was pretty common during this summer after the end of the war against Germany, lots of troops pissed off and ready for home?
• August: 28-day leave via LIAP (my understanding would be this was 28 days leave in the UK, before returning to Italy/North Africa right?)
• October: ???
• November: Transferred from Central Mediterranean Forces to Middle East Forces
  • My understanding here is that CMF was the newer name for the 15th Army Group that was based in Italy. Which would make sense based on the above about being posted to the 18th Infantry Brigade. MEF was based out of Egypt. But his service sheet says he was in North Africa the whole time?
  • I can't make out much of related parts here. But it seems he then joined No. 16 Workshop Company.

• March 46: Further training as a vehicle mechanic. Passed TT???
• April: Leave in Egypt, which includes "leave without RM" and "leave with HRM" and I cannot figure out what this means. The handy abbreviation guide does not have ones that make sense in this context.
• December: Not completely clear on all the details here. But, in the end, returns to the UK as part of the Python scheme.

• January 47: Joined 6 Group HQ. One of the documents states this was a static HQ. So, basically a holding unit while demobbing?
• February: Posted to No. 2 Military Dispersal Unit and struck off strength (so demobbed?)

 

It's quite hard to read with the image limits that are in place on the forum but the 18th Infantry Brigade seems to read 18th Infantry Brigade Workshops.

I'd have to check bu maybe this part of the brigade remained in North Africa with the rest of 1 Armoured Division and only the infantry components went to Anzio in March? But the whole of 1st Armoured went to Italy in May/June so I'd have expected this unit to also have moved.

I think the 741? is 741 Infantry Troops Workshop - Infantry Troops Workshops: 741 Wksp. | The National Archives (ex-18 Infantry Brigade Workshop)

 

I am no REME specialist but you appear to have a number of sheets that whilst interesting, you could largely ignore.
Concentrate on the AF/ B103 sheets as this lists all postings and courses the others are additional summary sheets used for admin purposes. largely repeating those on B103.
It would help if you show the page titles if you have them.
The MoD clerks often cut them off due to the sheets being too large for modern A4 copiers.
Th B103 appear to be sheets 2,3,4,5,and 6 on your posting.

We have an excellent transcriber of these sheets if he turns up
but I make one observation that a number of the Right Hand columns have been redacted either by yourself or MoD.

I will drop by later in case you are stuck but would prefer to wait until others more knowledgeable arrive.
I am a bit busy at the moment.
Good Luck

 

Thank you, that makes so much more sense and cheers for the link as well.

Sorry, I didn't think about that last night. I'm in a rush to get to work this morning, but could re-upload later today in full (I was trying to provide the best screenshot of the info as possible as i'm on a laptop and couldnt get a zoomed in shot of each page). The first page does not have any codes on, just has the title "Identification of Aubrey on Joining". Some of the others have the top part and others don't, so they are a mix of B 103s and what I presume to be continuation pages.

I was wondering about myself, all the MOD. Every officer's name and signature has been redacted throughout the various documents.

 

Hi

Spent 4 days in Jan 43 at Connaught Military Hospital (Knaphill, Surrey)

GRTD stands for General Reinforcement Training Depot. This is where soldiers on the "X iV" List are held until they are taken onto strength onto a new unit.

Mechanized or Mechanical warfare expert is more likely to be "Mechanized or Mechanical Warfare Establishment"

69 British General Hospital (29/05/44)
Ormskirk 6/42 to 10/42 then overseas; Bougie (Africa) 11/42 to 11/42 then to La Reunion; La Reunion 11/42 to 2/44 then to Cancello; Cancello 2/44 to 2/45 then to Rome; Rome 2/45 to 7/9/45 then disbanded.

Unique draft codes identify a movement of a group of personnel overseas. They have no other meaning.

4/1/43 "Attached training course of Instruction to No 3 Technical Training Gp (Group?) - Guilford"

Good reading: Craftsmen Of The Army Vol 1 (covers ww2 - not an easy find - a local library may have a copy)

Hope this helps

Gus

 

Hi BoredPanda

I had a brief look at the posted records earlier today but have been busy all day. As Uncle Target has noted the Right hand columns have been redacted. These often help to confirm the Unit's full or abbreviated title and help searching for War Diaries held at The National Archives.

I will look at these again tomorrow in more detail and will get back to you sometime later on (probably in the afternoon).

Steve W

 

HI BoredPanda

As promised my reply as follows which I have split into 3 separate posts. Most of the entries are self-explanatory and you may have already deciphered these but for the sake of completeness, and the benefit of others, I have detailed all the entries. In addition, have added my comments in brackets.

1. Service.jpg -
Self-explanatory – shows his service split between periods spent Home (UK) & Overseas.

2. 42-43.jpg -
05/11/42 - joins 25 Primary Training Centre, General Service Corps, at Donnington. (to do his initial training and to determine which part of the army he is more suited to)
16/12/42 – following initial training he is transferred to the R.E.M.E. and joins 105 Section at Aldershot.
17/12/42 – confirmation of being Taken on Strength (T.O.S.) of 106 Company, R.E.M.E. (there is some conflation of units here, reference is made to both 105 Section and 106 Company but the final page you posted (42-47.jpg) shows it was 105 Company)
19/12/42 – Struck off Strength (S.O.S.) and posted to R.E.M.E. Workshops (W/S), Guildford. (appears to be with 203 Section, R.E.M.E. per next entry)
11/01/43 – admitted to Connaught Hospital, Knaphill, but remains on 203 Section’s strength.
19/01/43 – passes his Trade Test as a Motor Mechanic, Group B, Class III.
09/02/43 – following successful passing of trade test he is mustered as Motor Mechanic, Group B, Class III w.e.f 19/12/42 (note - each trade was placed in a Group category for pay purposes; soldiers were also placed in a Class depending on passing different levels of trade training – Class IV ascending to Class I)
15/01/43 - discharged from hospital. (belated entry)
March/April 43 – attached for course of instruction to No.3 Technical Training Group, Brighton. (there were a number of Technical Training Groups around the country, specialising in certain trades, often based around civilian Technical Colleges/Institutions)
14/05/43 – passes Part 1 of the course and confirmed as a Driver/Mechanic, Class II. He stays on for Part II of the course.
13/06/43 – passes trade test and mustered as Motor Mechanic, Class III. (this seems odd as he had already passed this trade test on 19/01/43 whilst with 203 Section)

There appears to be a missing entry at the bottom of this form going by the first entry on the next page, indicating that the last entry was dated 26/07/43, presumably detailing his return to 203 Section.

Part 2 follows....

 

Part 2 -

3. 43-44.jpg
28/08/43 – redacted details of marriage.
04/09/43 – posted to RE.M.E’s Mobilisation and Holding Centre pending move overseas.
12/09/43 – confirmed drafted to RDYKK. (presume this is the date he embarked for overseas)
23/09/43 – disembarked North Africa.
23/09/43 – Posted to and T.O.S. No 5 Battalion, 1 General Reinforcement Training Depot from X(iv) list. (see gmyles’ post #5 above)
28/02/44 – posted to AFHQ (135), Mechanical Warfare Experimental Establishment.
24/04/44 – posted to sick list – X(2). (? 69 General Hospital)
29/05/44 – posted to X(4) list (by) 69 General Hospital.
14/06/44 – T.O.S. 18 Infantry Brigade Workshops from X(4) list.

4. 44-46.jpg
18/07/44 – re-classified & re-mustered as Vehicle Mechanic, Group A, Class II. (you will note that his trade has been re-classified from Group B to Group A)
30/03/45 – his parent unit was re-designated as 741 Infantry Troops Workshops.
28/07/45 – S.O.S. to X(2) list - 69 Field Dressing Station (F.D.S.).
30/07/45 - T.O.S. from X(2) list – 741 Infantry Troops Workshops. (i.e. returns to unit)
30/07/45 – awarded 7 days C.B. (Confined to Barracks) and 14 forfeiture of Pay for being A.W.O.L. Date of offence 25/07/45.
07/08/45 – entrained Milan for 28 days leave in UK. Medical Allowance granted w.e.f. same date (see entry dated 16/09/45)
09/08/45 - embarked for UK from Calais.
28/07/45 – sustained injury on 28/07/45 – Trivial. On duty & not to blame. (belated entry)
16/09/45 – arrived C.M.F. from leave and entitled to Medical allowance.
03/10/45 – T.O.S. X(8) list (relates to being in transit between units – see 42-47.jpg below)
13/11/45 – C.M.F. to M.E.F. (moves from Italy back to North Africa?)
17/11/45 – posted to R.E.M.E. Base Depot.
03/12/45 – posted to 16 Workshops Company.
16/03/46 – passed Trade Test and upgraded Vehicle Mechanic. Group A, Class II (again this seems odd as he’d already passed this test 14/05/43 unless they had changed the test?)
01/04/46 – promoted to Unpaid Lance Corporal.
22/04/46 – promoted to Paid Lance Corporal. (possibly delayed to due hospitalisation – see below)

Part 3 follows....

Edit - typo

 

Part 3 -

5. 46.jpg
15/04/46 – admitted to Hospital – X(ii) list and reverts to Craftsman.
25/04/46 – discharged Hospital.
04/05 to 17/05/46 - leave without Ration Allowance.
15/08/46 - promoted to Unpaid Acting Corporal.
05/09/46 - promoted to Paid Acting Corporal.
28/09 to 11/10/46 – leave with Higher Rate of Messing Allowance in Egypt.
13/11/46 – promoted to War Corporal. (War ranks would only be held during hostilities)
05/12/46 - posted from 16 Workshops Company to 156 Transit Camp prior to Python leave.
08/12/46 – posted to UK, S.O.S. Middle East Land Forces and embarked for UK on Python.

6. 46-47.jpg
24/12/46 – T.O.S. Holding & Mobilisation Centre, R.E.M.E.
29/01/47 – posted to 6 Group HQ Workshops.
28/02/47 – medically examined for release (at HQ Station Workshops Company)
24/04/47 – posted to “Y” list on proceeding to No 2 Mobilisation & Dispersal Unit (M.D.U.) for release and S.O.S. (see note below re unit “signing him off”)
28/07/47 – Release to Class “Z” (T), Royal Army Reserve.

Finally -

42-47.jpg

Copy of the card (i.e. Tracer Card) held at Records Office showing abbreviated extracts from his Service and Casualty forms as above.

This is one of the better forms I have seen and has been completed in a very comprehensive way and includes some details not shown on the above forms or clarifies entries e.g.
a. see entries 17/12/42 and 19/12/42.
b. he appears to have passed through 65 Transit Camp prior to arrival in CMF from UK leave on 16/09/45.
c. Also on 25/04/47, 7(H) posts him to the “Y” list – entry for 24/07/47 is stamped “Holding & Training Wing”. 7 (H) = 7 (Holding etc.) Company R.E.M.E. ?


Hope this assists
Steve W


Edited - typo

 

That's the expert I was waiting for!
First Class.
sjw8 Deserves a title.

 

Sorry for the delay in getting back to everyone, its been a bit of a week lol. Thank you all so much for helping to flesh out his records from what I could read, and adding in all the additional details and context. I cannot thank you enough.

I do find the overall records paint a very confusing picture: the overview saying North Africa for the duration, whereas the specifics all seem to point to being in Italy (as noted by y'all above, the entirety of the 18th Brigade being sent to Italy including their rear elements, the hospital being based there etc.). Would it be safe to say that he served in Italy, when explaining his records to the rest of the family? Or, does it seem more plausible that the workshops were located somewhere in North Africa?

Now, this one really stands out ... and makes me slap myself in the face. I couldn't make out the first word on that line (until I read your response) and I didn't join the dots together with the rest of the info. In her final years, my great-grandmother moved in my grandmother. After she passed, her room became my room whenever I stayed over. Facing the bed, their wedding photo (it had faded quite a bit so always looked very eerie to my young self, the paled out look of these two deceased individuals and that due to the fading it looked like they were floating)!

 

Hi

The only way to be certain would be to obtain copies of the War Diaries, held at The National Archives, for each of his units. I cannot find one for Mechanical Warfare Experimental Establishment as such.

18 Infantry Brigade Workshops is listed under C.M.F. (British Element) - Italy series -
Reference: WO 170/574
Description: 18 Infantry Brigade: R.E.M.E. Wksp.
Date: 1944 Jan.- Dec.
and -
Reference: WO 170/4437
Description:18 Infantry Brigade: R.E.M.E. Wksp.
Date: 1945 Jan.- Mar.

741 Infantry Troops Workshops is also listed under C.M.F. (British Element) - Italy series -
Reference: WO 170/6480
Description: Infantry Troops Workshops: 741 Wksp.
Date: 1945 Apr.- Dec.

I cannot trace a War Diary for 16 Workshops Company, R.E.M.E. However there are several for a similar named unit - 16 Base Workshop (Wksp) - again this listed under C.M.F. (British Element) - Italy - and would be in right "ballpark" as he was posted in from the R.E.M.E. Base Depot.
Reference: WO 170/6456
Description: Base Workshops: 16 Wksp.
Date: 1945 July- Dec.
and -
Reference: WO 170/8691
Description: Workshops: 16 Base Wksp.
Date: 1946 Jan.- May

I think from the above, it is fairly safe to infer that the above units were in Italy during 1944 and 1945, coupled with the fact that he entrained at Milan on leave in August 1945.

Again, I hope this helps.
Steve W

 

I'm a bit late to the party but really cannot add much to the excellent transcription by Steve W, but I find it a bit strange that there is no mention of any medals being awarded on the B103 forms.

Lesley

 

Thank you again, this is so valuable. So far, his story has been muddled in a really weird oral history (maybe him pulling peoples legs and them taking him seriously? Family watching too many war movies? who knows!), but I will present my findings so far and see what they think (personally, I found it more interesting than the half-baked version they had lol).

They were mentioned on the "Identification of Aubrey on Joining" record, the partial page I called "service" in the initial post although I cut that part out on the screenshot, as I didn't think it was very relevant at the time since it just showed the basic medals for being in the service during the war. On reinspection, thanks to your comment, I realized the scribble I couldn't read actually states "Italy Star" (which makes me feel like an idiot due to my last question! lol). I have uploaded a copy to this post, but he was awarded the:
The War Medal 1939–45
1939/45 Star
Italy Star
Defence Medal

 

The reason I queried the lack of medals on the service records you posted, was I presumed the dates on one of them was wrong. The same thing happened on my father's records too -they had him in North Africa from October 42 to July 44, when I know he was in Italy at the time .

army records | WW2Talk

Lesley

 

Hi Guys,

Just found this thread, excellent work by all .

On the section that mentions :- please see Capture 23 /24... it says 5th Battalion GRTD .. Did you establish exactly where in North Africa they were located ?

Also does anyone know if there were more than one GRTD in NA at that time ?

My dad disembarked in Algiers on Christmas Day 1943 and was placed in 15 BN 1 GRTD ...They were based in Phillppeville (now called Skikda) .

As the dates match the time they were both in the GRTD....(possibly ?), did you get any of the WD's that Gary T kindly posted the links too ? .

Just trying to link some dots on my Dad's service record (there's lots of them lol).

Derrick

 

Just a few years ago people would enquire about their relatives, accepting that there was a limit on what they could learn.
Now we are asking for answers to what was regarded as minor detail.

Experience is teaching me that many military centres were mobile, following behind the advance towards the enemy.

It seems logical (to me at least) that GRTD centres moved forward thus appearing in different places as the war progressed.
Examples of this are the movement of Military Hospitals and CWGC Cemeteries up through Italy.

Or as in this letter from a Lieutenant RA moving from Tunisia to Italy.
"We occupied a French barracks and did a lot more training, until the call came to move across the seas again.
It was then that I went into hospital, not knowing where the Regiment had gone (though having a pretty good idea!).
After I got out of hospital I fell in with friends at Tunis who solved a knotty problem and gave me a lift out to the transit camp at the port
from which I sailed.
I was there a week living in pretty poor conditions so it wasn’t without relief that I saw Africa disappear over the horizon
and looked forward to new campsites a few hundred miles nearer home!
Since arriving we have done the usual round of the movement control authorities to try to speed up the process.
This produced a piece of luck for Jenks who found the Colonel of “02E” (responsible for postings) to be an old school friend.
So he wangled a special authority to proceed direct to his unit but didn’t manage to get me in the same metaphorical boat.
So off he went yesterday morning promising to ring up my Bty to tell them where I was.
I still have the three subalterns who gave me a lift to Bizerta as my travelling companions.
They left by an earlier convoy but I caught them up here a week later.
We are all waiting in a muddle, for a camp further up the line to sort it out before we can get orders to move a stage nearer the Div..