Some info on another landing; HQ V corps APO 305 US Army -NEPTUNE, Alert Order Preparation for Movement Part 1 of 3 - 1944 Alert Order Preparation for Movement Part 2 of 3 - 1944 Alert Order Preparation for Movement Part 3 of 3 - 1944
Wills, They seem to be large files (about 50 pages each?) and my poor asthmatic laptop is struggling to download them. Could you summarise the contents? If worthwhile I might give it another try.
The warning order,planning and organisation for the landing. The distribution list here: Build up priority table. This covers everything from individual clothing scales through to higher command orders. Small arms. Arty, vehicles all of the allocations to units for the landings. V Corps
Haven't looked at all the picures yet but Pantelleria looks unlikely, that sandy strip and the high groound in the background dont't seem to match. 2a Guerra Mondiale (1943-16) - La resa di Pantelleria - L'invasione della Sicilia
LCA 492 (photo 19) is recorded as being lost in 1944. Of course, this could be an earlier landing where it was salvaged... I'm thinking of those maps I copied in that 7 Royal Marine diary I copied today.
TiredOldSoldier, having found a couple of pics and maps of Pantelleria I tend to agree - it looks too small to have the high ground shown in some of the pictures. Still none the wiser really but I think I favour the practice landing theory, mid 1943 probably somewhere on NA coast or Sicily prior to invasion of Italy. Not being able to id any vehicle markings is a real pain, as LCT/LCM numbers don't seem to be much help in this case. Googling LCM throws up too many options for that abbreviation. Looking for Op Baytown gave a few hits - not much use (unless you are a gamer) - and Op Bromyard gets swallowed up in some town in the Midlands! Looking through a couple of books to try and get a handle on LCMs and related ships but no luck so far. I will try posting on RN Research Archive. Bit frustrating really but worth the effort I think.
I'm wondering if it's a landing somewhere in Greece c1944? Might be able to have a look at what 4 Div did tomorrow...
Thanks Idler, at this point I don't think we can discount anything post mid-43, training exercises included. In a few of the pictures the mid-distance vegetation seems very regular - olive groves perhaps? Doesen't narrow things down though.
LST 492 is reported commissioned Dec 1942 and lost north of Naples 24 Apr 1944, the tilted roofs on the houses make me think it's not an Italian "minor" island as the traditional houses there have enclosed flat roofs designed to collect rainwater as most lack other fresh water sources. The vegetation matches Sicily and the units look like second echelon, (arty and ambulances) possibly one of the "support" ops on the south coast or the crossing of the straits to mainland Italy.
TiredOldSoldier, the LST shown is actually LST407. The number 492 is A492 on a smaller landing craft apparently beached. I do agree with your comments about house styles and second echelon vehicles, looks like we might have to include Italian and maybe Greek landings. Whilst searching through some old posts I came across this originally posted by Idler: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-sea/28085-z-lighter.html Some great footage of Sicily also in related British Pathe pages. Coastline looks similar to that in the pictures but not convincing.
Thanks Idler - narrows dates down to Mid '43 to 24 April '44. A lot of landings during that time I think - including any practices. I will try to come up with a list of possibles.
Mike, I have tried searching for the LST details but have not found anything more than already posted. Regards Tom
Cheers Tom, at least we now have a date to work back from, but we need to go back as far as possible exercises preparing for Sicily I suppose.
The only major landings mentioned on Combined Ops website between those dates are these: 11/6/43 Pantelleria (Corkscrew) 10/7/43 Sicily (Husky) 9/9/43 Salerno, Italy (Avalanche) which doesen't really progress us much other than to look for links to those ops and possible exercises related to them.
I have been involved in researching Operation Husky for the last 8 years. I have visited Sicily 4 times and completely circumnavigated the island visiting landing and battle sites. I have studied the photos and agree it is hard to narrow down the landing, so I have little evidence for what I think. To me it looks very much like the south east coastal area of Sicily as I remember it, between Scoglitti and Cape Passero. I wonder if it could be the landing of the Canadian 1st Division between Pozzallo and Pachino (The Amber Coast). Here there is no formidable land obstacle behind these beaches and one hundred feet above the high-tide mark the land rises to no more than ten feet. From July 11th 1943 it was said the re-supply found little opposition which would account for what appears to be the relaxed attitudes. I only put this forward as an additional suggestion to those above, but with hope there might be something in it. Colin.
Hi Colin, thanks very much for your input. In one of the Pathe pieces about Husky I saw a similar sort of 'stratified' rock outcrop to the headland visible in several of the photos. It wasn't at sea level - it appeared to be perhaps a couple of hundred feet above sea level - but it certainly seemed quite characteristic. No exact location given but I will see what I can find out about the area you have suggested. Thanks again, Mike
Hi, Cannot help with the location but below is some information/dates on some of the Landing Craft shown in the photos. The LCM may have from Ennerdale (Landing Ship Gantry) which could carry 15 LCM or Empire Charmain (Landing Ship Carrier) which could carry 21 LCM. Unusual for the Pennant Numbers to be painted out and the carrier number used. Great set of photos. Regards Danny
Danny M, That's great - do you mind if I ask where you got those tables from? Now this might be a bit of a long shot but do these two pictures look like posible matches (although the colour one is taken from opposite direction)? If so it would place one of the series of photos around Cape Passero, southern Sicily.