Canadian army brief forray into France

Quote from The Fall of France by Terry Copp:

"First Bde. [the Royal Cdn. Regt., the Hastings and Prince Edward Regt. and the 48th Highlanders of Canada, with field and anti-tank artillery regiments] sailed for Brest on June 13, the day before the Germans entered an undefended Paris. The level of confusion in France was such that the Canadians, who were supposed to concentrate near the port before linking up with the Lowland division, were sent inland to Le Mans well past the proposed Brittany defence line.
The next day orders were issued reversing the movement; the Canadians were to return to England. Some elements of the division were 250 miles inland while much of First Bde. was en route to Le Mans by road. There was much cursing, frustration, disappointment and some reports of drunkenness, but the entire force was re-embarked in good order. Most of the brigade’s vehicles were lost though Lt.-Col. J.H. Roberts, commanding the lst Field Regt., Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, insisted his precious 25-pounder guns had to be saved. He was given less than two hours to accomplish this but it was more than enough time. The RCHA war diary noted bitterly: "Although there was evidently no enemy for 200 miles the withdrawal was conducted as a rout." This was no doubt unfair but the Canadians had little reason to be impressed with the strategic or operational management of the British army."

Does anyone know if any photos exist of this?
Specifically I'm looking for what markings the involved carriers would have.
Here is a list of what might be expected given they followed British protocol. If anyone can confirm or add exact detail, would be much appreciated.

1) -formation sign: quite possibly red background with gold maple leaf
2) -unit signs : 55 - Royal Canadian Regiment
56 - Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment
57 - 48th Highlanders of Canada
3) tactical number - no idea
4) WD number - serial number that starts with either T or CT (no clue of
exact serials)
5) Bridge marking -5 on yellow disc
6) friendly ID - white square
7) gas detection patch - ?

regards,
Jack

 

Canadian practice should indeed have conformed with British at this stage and if the units you mention formed the senior brigade of 1st Canadian Division then serials of 13, 14, 15 on a red background would seem correct.

The Canadian 'C' prefix was used as early as February 1940 on 'B' vehicles but only those owned by Canada, not vehicles on loan from the British. I don't know how this applied to carriers at that time.

The white recognition square does not seem to have been used by 2nd BEF armoured units.

The early-war bright yellow gas detector paint should have been applied. This was used in the UK also.

I have only come across one photo with vehicles captioned as representing Canadian units in France and regrettably there are no markings visible beyond the census numbers. It does look as if the prefix is 'CM...' on these cars but they appear to be Canadian types.



I don't recall where I scanned it from but it apparently shows the first Canadians to arrive in France, No.1 Canadian Divisional Provost.

 

Jackge-
can't imagine that the 1st bde of the Canadian 1st Div would be " not impressed with British management " of that operation as it was under the overall command of Lt.Gen Alan Brooke- who had just returned from that scene less than a week before- more likely that had questions about their own management which was always a bit "iffy" all during the war with only Symonds - Burns - Vokes- Hoffmeister- and John Roberts seemingly knowing what they were doing with afew of the lesser leaders also
Cheers

 

Tom - I'm pretty sure that was the author's own feelings about "British management".
Famed Canadian writer Farley Mowat was there as a soldier. In his writings, while waiting to hitch a ride back to the UK, he wrote uppermost in their minds was a fear that death or captivity was their fate - this indicates they were not blaming anyone.

regards,
Jack

 

No carriers or markings , but this is the only pic of a Canadian vehicle I've seen in in 1940 France , to the the right of this Bundesarchive picture there is a CMP Ford F15 . I've read that these new CMP trucks had just being issued before departure , must have been rather galling to leave them .

 

shop teacher in my high school was one of only Canadians captured at that time. was driving a motorcycle and got lost from the rest spent rest of the war in prison camps

 

Deleted

 

Without checking and off the top of my head there were no RTR Canadian units in France during 1940, They id have some cavalry IIRC, I think I posted their nominal roll on here.

Did the Canadians have a RTR ?

 

Drew
while the Canadians did NOT have what we call the rtr - they did have the 4th & 5th Armoured Divisons with one Tank bde each - plus 2 armoured brigades

1st AB and 5th Div fought in Italy and NWE - the rest only fought in NWE

They were known as Armoured units - e.g. 12 armoured = B.C Dragoons etc
Cheers

 

To bump this up with a question.

Were the Canadian vehicles painted the same colours as the British ones in 1940 or did they have different colours?

Thanks

Malc.

 

Yes they did Tom, but in 1940 they had not made it across the pond! And my information suggests that the B C Dragoons were the 9th Armoured Regiment! The 12th were the Trois Rivieres.

Chris

 

Over on MLU forum Mark W. Tonner has listed every vehicle by regiment with census number that the Canadians took to France , link -

CMPs first used in action: June 1940, France - Page 4 - MLU FORUM

 

Thanks.
A good page, it`s where I got the idea to model a CMP for my BEF collection, no real info on cam colours, though.

Malc.

 

The 1st CAB was an independant Brigade and was made up of the Ontario Regiment, Calgary, and the Three Rivers Regiment; plus support units. They did not make it to France in 40 but landed in Sicily in July 43. Once in Italy the brigade was in combat 532 days of a possible 668 days. The Three Rivers Regiment was continuiosly in action from the 21st of June 1944 until 21st Febuary 1945.

 

Suppose you've seen this pic of Canadian gear arriving at Brest-

Equipment of 1st Field Regiment, RCHA, Brest, 1940 - MLU FORUM

I have also a pic of the Germans on this quay and the Vickers tanks seem to be in exactly the same spot ,did they ever move !
Craig

 

Following on from last post here's the Vickers tanks on same quay at Brest , if they came with the Canadians what unit would they be ?

 

Following on from last post here's the Vickers tanks on same quay at Brest , if they came with the Canadians what unit would they be ?

Hello Craig,

I cannot see any names on the tanks only that they seem to be A and C squadron vehicles. Now if it were possible to read the T number on the left hand tank that may help, and if I am not mistaken it also looks like someone has painted a Swastika in that C Sqn circle too!

cheers

Kevin

 

Is it T4161 or T4761?

It looks to me as if the Tac sign on the last vehicle has been painted over as it darker than the ones on the other vehicles but also darker than the one on the turret rear.

Could they be AOP tanks for the RCHA?

 

Being evacuated from Brest makes it part of Operation Aerial/Ariel Operation Aerial, the evacuation from north western France, 15-25 June 1940 Which means the tankers are probably from some element of 1st Armoured division. There's a detailed history of Aerial's many and various ship movements on naval-history.net...Operation Aeriel, June 1940