Capt. John James "Jack" Longland (1st South Lancs') – Can anyone help me verify dates, please?

Hello,

This is my first post on this website, and I’m likely to be one of the younger members I imagine? I am glad I came across it and I am hoping someone may be able to enlighten me on some questions I have about my late Grandfathers time in the military during WW2 in Normandy.

I also have plenty of numerous photos/documents from his time in the war that I can upload if it will help answer the questions as I don’t think I fully understand parts of them.

My Grandfather, John James “Jack” Longland, sadly passed away on December 8th 2012 at the age of 93. Starting out in the A.A, and then moving to the Infantry he joined The Kings Regiment (Liverpool). He later served most of his time during the war in the 1st South Lancs’, and was part of the 5th Beach Group, engaged in the D-Day Landings. After this he also spent time in in Israel as part of the peace keeping efforts after the war.

EDIT: He was a member of the 5th Kings at some point, or all of it. I'm not all that clued up on all the lingo and what Battalion/Unit/Group etc all means.

Also in Africa, although I’m not sure what the purpose for this was. He kept hold of a menu of the last dinner he had with his fellow soldiers that all signed it. I have attached this scan as some of you may be interested or even recognise the names.

He was demobbed in 1946 with the rank of Captain.

In the months before he passed, I took it upon myself to ask questions and for him to explain some of the documents he had in his possession as being 93 years old I knew that realistically there would not be many more opportunities to do this. So, I set my phone up for some audio recording.

Despite his age, my Grandfather was very much “on the ball” mentally. He kept up with his Sudoku puzzles, was proficient with his computer and even sent texts and emails from his iPhone! Therefore I trusted that a lot of what he told me was going to be accurate.

However, when talking about his part played in the D-Day Landings (on Sword Beach) I was a bit confused. The general consensus amongst my family from what he told us is that he was landed on D-Day +1 (June 7th), before going on to fight in Caen and so forth. During our conversations he mentioned that he was accidently landed on an “American” beach (although not sure which) before being shipped back out and long the coast to reach Sword.

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this? Was he confused or misremembering? He said he set sail on D-Day itself, as far as I remember. Is it possible he landed later that day?

I’m trying to put together a definitive timeline/history to where he was and when as my own personal tribute. My own research has taken me quite a way, including lots of explanations of old photos and documents however I have hit a wall.

His Service Number was 293330 if that helps. Can anyone help me, please?

PS: If anyone had/has relatives in the same Company/Group/Unit/Battalion (I am unsure of the terminology exactly) I would be happy to upload the other photos and document scans that I have.

- Richard

 

Hello and welcome-I would start by applying for a copy of his service records. His commissioned career will be slightly easier to follow without them but overall his records will dot the I's and cross the T's.

Cheers
Andy

 

Found him in the 1 South Lancs war diaries. He joined the battalion from the Kings Regiment on the 14th August 1944. On the 11th September 1945 he became OC HQ Company.

I need to trawl through all the diaries now from the 14th Aug to follow his career with them. That said we still don't know what battalion of the King's he was serving with yet-Perhaps one of the 1944/45 NWE chaps can answer that as I don't normally venture out of the 1940 BEF Zone

I'll be back !

 

Hi Richard and welcome.
Sounds like you have made an excellent start. Here is a link to the forms needed to request a Service Record:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/request-forms-for-service-personnel-details-army

We have several members interested in the South Lancs and Beach Parties that will be able to help you.

 

Bit of a dead end I'm afraid as far as the 1944 diary goes. There's no mention of him joining in the actual diary section of the file and he's listed in the officers field return for Aug as joining on the 14th Aug from the Kings Regt. He is listed as the Bn SO whatever that is?

 

Whilst looking through the diaries I remembered this thread and wondered if your man was from the same battalion-He joined the South Lancs at the end of July though, might even be a picture of him:

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/nw-europe/35818-funeral-256395-captain-john-ellwood-1st-bn-kings-regiment.html

 

What a great team we make Owen

 

5th Beach Group had 5th King's in it.
D-Day : Normandy 1944 - SWORD BEACH : British Troops


5th Beach Group :
5th Bn King's Rgt :
Lt Col. Broad (KIA 6 June)
Major P. C. Wintreton (until 12th June)
Major G. D. Wreford-Browne (from 12th June)


Yes that was his Battalion for sure. Do you perhaps know at all what date he landed on the beach? Thank you for your time and effort on research too much appreciated.

 

Thanks a lot Drew, an Mike also! Your research is great, so quick too! Very much appreciated. I shall take a closer look at that other thread tomorrow and view the photos in more detail. I'll be sure to request his service record too after Christmas.

Also, The "SO" position you mentioned stands for Signals Officer. I shall upload the document that mentions this in question tomorrow. Thanks again!

 

Richy,

I read your post because of the Kings Regiment link. I looked through my files and information wise came up with nothing at all.

However, I looked through my photos of King's units and found this unknown group of three 2/Lieus. One of whom has a slight resemblance.

I've attached for you to view, I do know it was taken in 1944.

Apologies in advance if I am wide of the mark.

 

I realised the SO bit a while ago !

You'd need to check the diary in more detail as I never copy all of the field returns, I only normally do one for each month. It looks like your man was with them upto April, leaves them at some point in May (posting to another unit, course or illness maybe) and re-joins them on the 10th June.

 

Richy, please upload any photos etc you have, always nice to see and might be useful to other members.
With apologies to Mike ('Trux' as I copied it from his sub-forum) attached a beach landing table for Sword on D-Day. Have a look around lines 40 to 80 and 5 Kings, HQ, Beach signals etc are mentioned with landing times and even vessel types, and serials. Possibly landed either H Hour or H+20. But you will have to look through it all as I notice 5 Kings are mentioned much later in the table as well.
Mike's Trux sub-forum is a fantastic source for 21 AG information.

 

Mike - It looks like he didn't landed with the battalion according to the officer field returns.

 

Just noticed that from your post Drew - still nice to know when the rest of the unit might have landed!

 

Richy, please upload any photos etc you have, always nice to see and might be useful to other members.
With apologies to Mike ('Trux' as I copied it from his sub-forum) attached a beach landing table for Sword on D-Day. Have a look around lines 40 to 80 and 5 Kings, HQ, Beach signals etc are mentioned with landing times and even vessel types, and serials. Possibly landed either H Hour or H+20. But you will have to look through it all as I notice 5 Kings are mentioned much later in the table as well.
Mike's Trux sub-forum is a fantastic source for 21 AG information.


Thanks Mike, that would make sense as H+20 would place him there on D-Day +1 which is what he told us, and what his 80 year old brother said in the tribute at his funeral. I'll have a look at your link later today, this is just an early morning message before a busy day at work

 

Much appreciated, guys. Is there anything I can do to aid in this research? I'd love to help out.

Here are some photos and documents scans, explained too. I'm glad he kept all this stuff.

Chambers Personality Article
A short "Personality" article appearing in a local publication containing details of his time in the War and also his career in Accountancy.

Mentioned in Dispatches Certificate
Self explanatory for you guys I imagine

Testimonial
Sent by a Major.DJ Penwill with regards to my Grandfather and his time served

Award
In 1945, when he was a Lieutenant.

Jack (Aged 25 years old)
Taken by a German photographer early on in the War, he kept it with him after that

Jack (4).jpg
Standing on the right hand side, taken in Europe was all that was written on the back of the photo.

War Time Friends (1943)
My Grandfather is in the top left backrow, not sure who the others are or what Unit this is.

War time friends
Smaller photo, 4 men. Grandfather top right, and a "John Lloyd" too. This may be of interest to someone?

Jack (3)
Grandfather on far left, unsure who the other two men are. Taken in Europe at some point I think?

Haifa
Taken from the top of a mountain overlooking Haifa, may be of interest, may not. I don't know much about his time in Africa apart from this and his "last meal" with his fellow soldiers mentioned in the original post.

Jack (1), Jack (1943) and Jack (1945)
3 different photos taken during the War

Mike - It looks like he didn't landed with the battalion according to the officer field returns.

Thanks again for your efforts, Drew. What do you mean exactly by that? Are you saying he landed with another Battalion before joining or transferring to his?

 

Richy,

I read your post because of the Kings Regiment link. I looked through my files and information wise came up with nothing at all.

However, I looked through my photos of King's units and found this unknown group of three 2/Lieus. One of whom has a slight resemblance.

I've attached for you to view, I do know it was taken in 1944.

Apologies in advance if I am wide of the mark.

There is some slight resemblance, but I don't think I can see him unfortunately. May send out to the family anyway and see what they think. Thanks though!

 

I hope everyone had a good Christmas, all the best for the New Year also.

Can anyone give me any parting help please with these dates? Or is the best way to go about it simply requesting his Service Record?

 

Thanks again for your efforts, Drew. What do you mean exactly by that? Are you saying he landed with another Battalion before joining or transferring to his?

Without checking the records again, if I remember correctly he left the Bn before D-Day (I don't know why, possibly the signals course, who knows) and joined them after D-Day.