Cargo manifests: WW2 merchant ships in general, WS convoy vessels in particular

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by Mike L, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hello all,

    Looking for some advice from the likes of the great expert Hugh McLean.
    I am sure I have seen this or a similar thread before but can't find it.
    Where is the best place to find a cargo manifest for a given ship for a particular convoy or even part of a convoy?
    I am aware TNA is probably not the best place - so where is?
     
  2. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi Mike,

    With regard to ships lost at sea - Lloyd's War Losses has brief information on cargo.

    Otherwise for given ships - The Merchant Shipping Movement Cards, record the movements of both British registered and Allied vessels engaged in the war effort. Each set of cards records the name of the ship, any former name it had, its size (tonnage), to whom it was registered, the ship’s destination, date of arrival and sometimes ports of call. They also record any cargo carried on board. However, in my experience movement cards do not always record the cargo. The cards are also quite messy difficult to read - held in piece BT 389 at Kew.

    Records of the Government War Risks Insurance Scheme, now found at The National Archives in series BT 228, I believe are useful for researching a ship’s cargo although I have no actual experience of searching this file.

    I am not sure if there are cargo detail in ADM 199/2184 to ADM 199/2194 convoy files at the National Archives.

    So finding out about a ship's manifest especially one that survived to discharge her cargo is not at all easy without wading through big files.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  3. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hi Hugh, many thanks for that.
    I am hoping to get to Kew for a couple of days in January so will look at those files.
    Apart from Kew are there any other possible sources you can suggest?
    A couple of things I am trying to get some more information on are exactly what MT ships (Motor Transport?) converted cruise liners (troops) and other 'general cargo' vessels would be carrying and where on the convoy route various elements of cargo would have been unloaded or possibly loaded.
    Of particular interest is convoy WS5 and WS5A (Departed Glasgow December 1940) via Gibraltar, Freetown and Durban up to arrival in Egypt.
    I already know most of the ships I need to look at in closer detail but without the loading manifest at Glasgow I don't know which others I need to investigate.

    Best regards,

    Mike
     
  4. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Mike - I can send you a copy of sources used by Archie Munro for WS 5A / B if you would like?

    Jules.
     
  5. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hi Jules,
    That sounds potentially very useful. My Aussie mate has a copy of 'The Winston Specials' and will be with me in January but I already know that does not contain a great deal about cargoes, especially in the latter part of the convoy.
    Are you happy to send me details by email or PM?

    Cheers,

    Mike
     
  6. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    pm sent
     
  7. Glen C

    Glen C Member

    To everyone on this thread, I'm sad to report that my friend Mike L died on Dec 29th 2017 and his funeral was on 23rd January. It was very well attended showing what a likeable chap Mike was.
    However, I can say that his research continues as I and our mutual Australian colleague Mike B continue to search out more information on LCTs so any informatio regarding loading mainfests for convoy WS 5 / 5A / 5B would be most welcome.
    Thanks,
    Glen
     
  8. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Hi Glen - I was/am very sorry to know Mike has died. Many members expressed their sadness and sent their condolences to his friends and family on this thread: Mike L Rest in Peace - you maybe have seen it? My sincere condolences to you and thank for you for letting us know here.

    Re: your research, I sent Mike some source info from Munro's WS convoys but I think Mike B has that book/info already. If not, I can forward it on to you if you would like it.

    Jules.
     
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  9. Glen C

    Glen C Member

    Hi Jules, thanks for pointing me to the thread - I had missed it entirely being wrapped up in my own thoughts. His funeral was sad but there were laughs too and Mike B flew over from Australia, helped the family with the arrangements and put together a photo montage to show at the wake which was well received - not a dry eye in the house !
    I'll make sure Mike B sees the thread too as he was very emotional that our friend and fellow LCT enthusiast would no longer be with him at TNA as they uncovered hitherto unknown gems.
    If you could send a copy of the info I'd be really grateful - email okay?
    Thanks,
    Glen
     
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  10. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Hi Glen - I've sent you a pm
     
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