Caunter, Green, Blue or both?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by pminotti, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. pminotti

    pminotti Junior Member

    Wich is the correct scheme?

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  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    have a look at this MAFVA
     
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  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Edited the word Caunter into the thread title to attract the attention of those that will be able to help.
     
  4. pminotti

    pminotti Junior Member

    Thank you!
     
  5. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    I've been helping Mike Starmer by taking photos of WW2 paint samples in the Canadian archives...

    The archives here turned out also have original paint chips of the Caunter colours and they prove Mike's research is correct.

    Note that the lightest colour in the Caunter scheme could either be Portland Stone (a light creamy colour with a green tinge, looks pretty good in the photograph of the document above) and Light Stone, which is a pretty strong yellow.

    I'll see if I can post any pictures later on.
     
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  6. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Has Mike had to revise any of his findings / mixes relating to the European colours ? I spent a pleasant weekend with him looking at KG No.3 Mike Starmer.JPG
     
  7. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Hi Rich,

    No, no big revisions. The Canadian archives have a sample of Light Green - Mike's sample in my copy of his NW Europe book is pretty much bang on. We are currently figuring out the exact shade of Dark Tarmac. I also found a sample of Light Sand in the archives which it seems like might be the obscure "Canadian sand" aka "Coronado tan"
     
  8. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Aside from colours, just realized, the two pictures in the original post show how the scheme was adapted differently to different vehicles. You can see how the angles of the pattern on the Matilda turret is different from the A-9 in the document. I have a PDF copy of an article in which Mike talks about how the pattern was adapted (in two different ways) to Matildas.
     
  9. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I'm glad that 'Light Green' has been pinned down. The sample that Mike worked from was on my mudguards but the whole bike had been overpainted with a black paint that had hardened like concrete and resisted all solvents. This wasn't a problem with the KG No.3 as it was hidden in protected areas but the Light Green disruptive had all been covered. It was noticeable when flatting back that it had been a powder-based paint with considerable quantities of yellow in and in my case, it had been badly stirred. Front mudguard.jpg
     
  10. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Oh that's super cool :)

    I'll see if I can ALSO post my picture of the light green comparison.
     
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  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Freya 30.9.06 (2).JPG Do the Canadian archive colours also include those used on Arm of Service plates ? I have always 'assumed' that my rear plate was cobalt blue but have never seen an accurate comparison.
     
  12. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    No, sorry Rich. From memory, the only surviving samples were the Caunter colours, Light Green, Dark Tarmac, and Light Sand. In fact there's almost nothing of the Light Sand sample - just a few bits left on the paper square.
     
  13. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    That's a shame, but all these snippets contribute to the big picture and help us to reconstruct what was common knowledge seventy-five years ago !
     
  14. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    I know!

    There are *instructions* in the Cdn archives for the manufacture of other colours of paints - a grey, and a Light India Red - but the attached colour samples are lost.

    On the other hand, the fact that the Caunter samples are there at all is a real fluke, since the orders to Canada to paint in Caunter were cancelled a month later. (This first memo was dated December '40)

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    Rich Payne likes this.
  15. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Sorry, I'm really behind on posting those pictures.

    This is the last Light Green comparison I made, between what was in Mike's book (left) and the archive sample (right). He sent me another sample to test and I forgot it on my last visit, tsk tsk.

    Caveats: I have to take all my pictures in the sun + artificial light of the reviewing room at the archives. That might affect things. And of course the amount of light in the room can vary, etc etc. With these pictures at least I had figured out how to set the "white balance" on my camera which did render the colours more accurate, BUT depending on your monitor setup that might also change what you see when you look at the photo...

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    Rich Payne likes this.
  16. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Most of these pictures are unfortunately blurry. I really want to have proper colour-corrected photos of the Caunter colours to put on my blog, but as I said, some of these are blurry, and on my last trip to the archives, I seem to have failed to apply the light balance correction properly.

    This one is Light Stone, with the official colour sample on the right:
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    Portland Stone, official colour on the right:
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    Slate, official on the right:
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    And this is Light Sand, not part of the Caunter scheme. It MIGHT be the mysterious "Canadian Sand" aka "Coronado Tan" colour mentioned only a few times. Note that almost all of the paint is gone, the darker parts are the paint...

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  17. pminotti

    pminotti Junior Member

    It'seems like our "Giallo Sabbia"[​IMG]
     
  18. pminotti

    pminotti Junior Member

    Ral 1002

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  19. idler

    idler GeneralList

    I mentioned it on another thread, but it might be more appropriate here: Bovington's Matilda II restoration includes a new paint scheme (probably down to too many criticisms of the Caunter ). The Matilda Diaries on Youtube imply that they've had a batch of KG3 knocked up by ICI/Nobels, presumably to their original recipe.
     

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