Churchill Tank "CHORLEY" 4th Battalion, Grenadier Guards, 6th Tank Brigade

Discussion in 'The Brigade of Guards' started by aggyaggy, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. aggyaggy

    aggyaggy Junior Member

    bob90
    I hope this isnt too raw a subject but regarding Cpl Cook, was he part of a tank crew that were all killed or was he part of an isolated incident? I am trying to gether dates of events to justify going through the War Diaries and wondered whether this incident could have involved the Chorley Tank??
     
  2. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Hope no one minds me posting this, but the pic of CHORLEY in Restayn's book (which I am looking at now) is clearly a Mk IV Churchill with 6 pounder gun and cast turret (and, of course, square hatches), though captioned as a Mk VII. The pic below it in the book does look like a Mk VII named MANCHESTER, but is captioned as a Cromwell of 11 Armd Div! It has no markings shown in full, but a red AoS starting with 1 and with a white Army bar underneath.

    Conclusion: captions in Restayn's book should be treated with caution!

    Chris
     
  3. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    The pic below it in the book does look like a Mk VII named MANCHESTER, but is captioned as a Cromwell of 11 Armd Div! It has no markings shown in full, but a red AoS starting with 1 and with a white Army bar underneath.

    Conclusion: captions in Restayn's book should be treated with caution!

    Chris

    The Cromwell is illustrated on the previous page and the caption is clearly a (partial) duplication.
    At the time of publication (1995) this book had info you could not find elsewhere.
     
  4. Restayn appears to have access to photos no one else has seen. Many moons ago I noticed his UK tank 'drawings' had markings/details that could only have come from real life.
    He has in the past used details taken from one vehicle and put them on another but he is the one illustrator (I believe) who uses photos of the actual vehicle.

    Jean Restayn must have an enviable collection of IWM photos...

    He probably used the same photo of CHORLEY as on page 8 of Osprey Vanguard 13 and New Vanguard 4 by Bryan Perrett. Sorry about the lousy scans but I do not own the book. Maybe someone who does could post a better one? The default source for all photos in the book, unless otherwise specified, is IWM.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Thankyou Mr Kenny; I'd never noticed that the Cromwell does appear, even if four pages earlier! I agree with you about the pics; that's why I bought the book. I am always a trifle wary of captions; even if the authors get them right, the printers can sometimes mess them up; not only M Restayn suffers from this!

    Chris
     
  6. aggyaggy

    aggyaggy Junior Member

    This makes interesting reading,
    What is the general concensus then on this particular photo and caption?
    Is it a picture of CHORLEY or not?
    If it is, then does that cast confusion over what Mk it is/was?

    We could do with bob90 commenting on this section of the discussion as he is the only one of us to have actually seen CHORLEY.
     
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Went here yesterday.
    http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/claydon/

    On display was a letter home to the family about Lt Hugh Verney who was badly wounded in Normandy , shot in head by a sniper.
    There was also a photo of the crew of CLAYDON in front of their tank.
    Claydon house is the family seat of the Verney family, hence the choice of name for Hugh's Churchill.
     
  8. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    I don't suppose you took a photo of the photo by any chance, or noticed if the census number was shown?

    cheers

    Kevin
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    No sorry , there was a notice about not taking pics.
    :(
     
  10. aggyaggy

    aggyaggy Junior Member

    Does anyone know if Grenadier Guards veteran, bob90 (who has been part of this thread) is ok?
    I have private messaged him a couple of times now and not heard anything at all, nor has he made any further comments on this thread.
    Hope all is ok.
     
  11. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    aggyaggy,

    I too hope that all is well.

    Checking his Posts he was Last Active Mar 03 2013 10:21 PM


    Regards
    Tom
     
  12. Gale54

    Gale54 New Member

    Hi
    I am new to this forum but am really interested in this thread as Stanley Cook who is mentioned here is my uncle. I have visited his grave at Hanover Cemetery and left a photo and details of him. I began to research him when I found the telegram the family received advising of his death.

    If anyone can give me any further information it would be much appreciated.

    Best wishes and thanks in anticipation
     
  13. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    Another of those coincidences you get on this forum and another reason why I love reading it. The Tiger in question was dug in at the base of the church tower in Estry and there was an artillery spotter in the tower - the reason I'm interested is that my dad's squadron (77 Assault Sqdn A.R.E.) was involved in an attack on Estry after the Guards had gone in. I'll check the war diary but it may have been 8/9 August. The attack was something of a disaster and the Guards and 77 Sqdn took heavy losses from 9 SS who were holding the village. My dad remembers being asked to shoot at the church tower to bring it down but he can't remember if he did as they'd also seen the dug in Tiger and were trying to get out of the way. Another tank was hit and the crew baled out, but were shot by the SS (the story was after surrendering?) and he remembered the burial service. I have been to Estry several times and there is a depression and a discoloured patch of grass at the base of the tower and several patches in the stonework, but villagers told me the tower was knocked down in the war and rebuilt?
     
  14. John Melling

    John Melling Member

    Hello I am wonder if any names of the crew or tanks from NO 3 SQUADRON, 4TH ARMD BN , GRENADIER GUARDS have ever been found? As of 29 June 1942

    Cheers

    John

    www.claytonandwhittleatwar.co.uk
     
  15. Hello John,

    Welcome to the forum!
    There is a rather complete list of 4 GG tank names as of 1944 here:
    http://www.mafva.net/Excel/11thRTR.xls

    I do not know whether we might assume that the names were the same in June 1942 though.

    Michel
     

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